A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 14 Jul 2019, 05:05

Durga wrote:Ufo said we weren't allowed to talk about this in the thread? Fine by me anyway


Naw, we are not supposed to talk about that anymore. That was my bad for responding to conq.

Also...fuck.

Lol I don’t have the time or computer to explain why, but like Durga is sounding so much townier on tone today. Like literally, I’ve never seen Durga have this much of a fire under her in a forum game. I’ve seen her as town once and scum once. I’ve never seen her like this. I’ve never seen her make posts longer than like five or ten sentences that feel like they have this kind of bite in them.

Fuck...like, has the scumteam just been buddying me really hard? Both of them? Durga did call Aes out for buddying me during the last day. In a way that felt like it could have been genuine. I also like her response to what I put forward about how little sense it made for me and Aes to be a team.

I just had some major major issues mainly with her D1 and her vote for Sjg, which I felt just had nothing backing it up.

And I thought I could see her most likely with Nook. But then again there was the thing I saw with the way Aes moved his vote to Nook from Durga for the reasons he gave. I though that gave a chance it was Aes/Durga. And of course the Nook theory wasn’t right. And that may have made me so convinced Nook was scum and she would be his partner that maybe it made me tunnel Durga too hard and could have given scum conq an easy roadmap to get me to vote Durga at the end here. And if my theory is right about Aes having intellect active yesterday, conq and Aes would have known it would have ended up being a coin flip between Aes getting lynched and town Durga to likely win the game.

Gotta be honest in that this is gonna be a harder choice choice than I thought it would be, and I’m never going to be able to sit at a computer before the deadline most likely. My best hope is to try to do some re reading later tonight and maybe during a long car ride tomorrow where I’m not driving.

Conq has just seemed really townie to me this game. But that’s with me trying really hard to read him better than in the past, where I always fucking scumread him when he’s town.

He’s done several things I’ve seen him do as town. Like going through previous days and finding new things that look interesting once there are flips to analyze, and the fake claim from yesterday. I just wish I had a better grasp on if his reasons behind that made sense. And so much of what he does and says just feels like it makes sense and fits. He’s found a lot today. But could that be because he’s just really good at these kinds of games? Agh. And I thought in retrospect after Aes flipped scum that it’s maybe kind of weird to me that he backed off Conq to such a great degree after he retracted his charisma claim when he’d been saying he suspected conq for other reasons before.

Also when thinking about it, I can see the potential for conq and Aes to NK Kim because in a way that made no sense for them, cuz she was tiwnreading both. I also thought that perhaps the way Conq was obsessing about what the Kim kill meant and if scum would have risked that without active strength could have been him trying to further throw us off.

I’ve never been particularly good at reading either Durga or Conq. Lol fuck and now I have to decide on the timetable I have. Oy. I’m not used to being the one not targeted for the muslynch at the end.

Oy.
You don't know what I'm thinking...because I don't know what I'm doing.

Conq wrote:Fatmo — you are a relentless mountain stream, ever-flowing, slowly but surely carving away at the rock face below.


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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Conq » 14 Jul 2019, 06:41

Fatmo wrote:
Durga wrote:Ufo said we weren't allowed to talk about this in the thread? Fine by me anyway


Naw, we are not supposed to talk about that anymore. That was my bad for responding to conq.

Also...fuck.

Lol I don’t have the time or computer to explain why, but like Durga is sounding so much townier on tone today. Like literally, I’ve never seen Durga have this much of a fire under her in a forum game. I’ve seen her as town once and scum once. I’ve never seen her like this. I’ve never seen her make posts longer than like five or ten sentences that feel like they have this kind of bite in them.

Fuck...like, has the scumteam just been buddying me really hard? Both of them? Durga did call Aes out for buddying me during the last day. In a way that felt like it could have been genuine. I also like her response to what I put forward about how little sense it made for me and Aes to be a team.

I just had some major major issues mainly with her D1 and her vote for Sjg, which I felt just had nothing backing it up.

And I thought I could see her most likely with Nook. But then again there was the thing I saw with the way Aes moved his vote to Nook from Durga for the reasons he gave. I though that gave a chance it was Aes/Durga. And of course the Nook theory wasn’t right. And that may have made me so convinced Nook was scum and she would be his partner that maybe it made me tunnel Durga too hard and could have given scum conq an easy roadmap to get me to vote Durga at the end here. And if my theory is right about Aes having intellect active yesterday, conq and Aes would have known it would have ended up being a coin flip between Aes getting lynched and town Durga to likely win the game.

Gotta be honest in that this is gonna be a harder choice choice than I thought it would be, and I’m never going to be able to sit at a computer before the deadline most likely. My best hope is to try to do some re reading later tonight and maybe during a long car ride tomorrow where I’m not driving.

Conq has just seemed really townie to me this game. But that’s with me trying really hard to read him better than in the past, where I always fucking scumread him when he’s town.

He’s done several things I’ve seen him do as town. Like going through previous days and finding new things that look interesting once there are flips to analyze, and the fake claim from yesterday. I just wish I had a better grasp on if his reasons behind that made sense. And so much of what he does and says just feels like it makes sense and fits. He’s found a lot today. But could that be because he’s just really good at these kinds of games? Agh. And I thought in retrospect after Aes flipped scum that it’s maybe kind of weird to me that he backed off Conq to such a great degree after he retracted his charisma claim when he’d been saying he suspected conq for other reasons before.

Also when thinking about it, I can see the potential for conq and Aes to NK Kim because in a way that made no sense for them, cuz she was tiwnreading both. I also thought that perhaps the way Conq was obsessing about what the Kim kill meant and if scum would have risked that without active strength could have been him trying to further throw us off.

I’ve never been particularly good at reading either Durga or Conq. Lol fuck and now I have to decide on the timetable I have. Oy. I’m not used to being the one not targeted for the muslynch at the end.

Oy.

This is extremely frustrating.

I’m Town. I’m Town. I have played Scum one time on this website. Once. And I’ve been mislynched several times for this “maybe he’s just really good at these sort of games” thinking. I feel like you said basically the same thing when we played together before. Maybe Martial Law? I might have that wrong, but I vaguely remember it. I am good as scum, but I’m also strategic, and there are a lot of things the scum team has done that should make it clear that I am not scum.

- I would never allow a teammate to pick Intelligence.
- I would never NK Kim if she had AGI and was townreading me and my partner.
- I would never try to lead a wagon on my partner in the last 15 minutes of Day 1 in a 5 vs. 2 games when the votes are fluid.

It is really hard to respond to “maybe Conq is just really good at these sort of games” because these are actions that are not really good. They are suboptimal plays, and I just wouldn’t do them — and it’s a point that is really hard to make myself. You kind of have to arrive there yourself.

For that reason, would you please read Day 1 again? You have so much more info now. You know 5/7 alignments. The whole day makes so much more sense now. Re-read Day 1. We’ve all spent a lot of time and effort on this game. Please take the time to do a re-read given all that we know. I think the game looks a whole lot clearer.

And a couple things about Durga. First, you’re underestimating her. She is a good player, and an experienced player. She knows what she’s doing. She’s played this game quite a bit more than I have, I think. So don’t waive her away and think “she has showed some emotion” or “she posted while drunk” and think that she doesn’t know exactly how that looks. Second, I agree with the “fire in her belly” comment. And it gave me some pause early in the day before my re-read, but I mean...she has fire in her belly because she will lose if we lynch her. Why didn’t she have a fire in her belly Day 2? Because she wasn’t on the brink of losing then.

I think she has acted Towny today, but that is because her one job today is to act towny. That’s not a hard job if it’s all you have to do. This is not a readable moment. It is not a fast reaction, or a moment of decision-making where different factions are forced to make tough choices.

To me, the two readable moments for Durga are the end of Day 1 where she put her reads away, and voted strategically rather then consistent with what she was saying, and the start of Day 2 when she didn’t have any interest in the game.

I am extra frustrated that you’re equivocating now because I’m just not going to be around tomorrow. I’m with the Little Conqs on a little getaway, and I just can’t be checking my phone. So my access is going to be very limited tomorrow. And I’m not even sure if anyone as so much as asked me a question today. So I can’t really engage now and I can’t do much tomorrow.

So just at least re-read Day 1.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 14 Jul 2019, 08:27

Conq, I’m not saying I’m voting you. As I’ve said, overall, I think you’ve felt much townier for the majority of the game. But I need to do my due diligence and express a few of the reservations I’ve been able to think of. And I was very wrong about two players already (Nook and Aes). I’m saying that I’ve literally never seen Durga be this into a game here. Both games I’ve seen her in, one town and one scum, she’s struck me as not quite as into it. I’ve never seen her make Mylo or Lylo either. I’m saying that she’s made this a harder decision than I thought it would be after Aes flipped and I thought about some things differently and she played with the tone she has. And one or two things she said yesterday as snap reactions I could see as possible townie reactions.

You’ve done so many things I think are pretty townie. You’ve put in a lot of effort. You’ve put a lot of logic behind stuff and built good looking cases. And I’ve felt we’ve been thinking similarly often. But I wanted to get on record the few things I can remember you’ve done that I could see a possible scum motive for. Or in one case, a reaction Aes had to you that I couldn’t be sure why he did that. He was suspecting you as scum after D1 for a few reasons. Your fake claim wasn’t part of D1, but once you retracted it, I felt he kind of backed off you in general. But again, I felt that the way he switched to Nook from Durga for the reasons he gave could point to her as his partner. One thing though is that I kind of wish Durga had been more proactive in building a comprehensive case on you. Bleh.

So yea, for like most of the game I’ve thought you seemed much much townier than Durga, and of course I don’t want to just dismiss that.

For your three bullet points, I think I agree with the third the most. About trying to get a wagon going on Aes like you did at Eod1. For the second, I actually think that if you did NK Kim and have been talking about it in the way you have been, that could have been a smart play. And like I’ve said, I don’t think it’s that ridiculous of a gamble to take to try to kill Kim if you could get some benefit from it. In this case it would be because she wasn’t suspecting you or Aes yet so killing her wouldn’t really point to you, especially when you went with the stance that you thought scum simply had to have active strength. That could have been a way to point at Nook. And that post I pointed out during D1 where you were thinking of what it would mean if Aes got NKd maybe might make sense with this theory as well.

Don’t really get the first bullet point. Why would you not allow a teammate to pick charisma? And couldn’t a teammate just argue for it anyway?

So yea, I agree with you about those moments at Eod1 the most.

Sorry this is so frustrating. I’m a bit frustrated too because I’m just crunched for time and not really able to go back through stuff as much as I want.

So I’m still not as likely to vote you. But I can see possible worlds where you’re scum. This isn’t just a “he’s good at these games” thing. And if I do end up voting Durga and I’m wrong and loose the game, I want to have at least given myself the chance to get my alternative theories out. Even if I don’t really have the time or ability to get into a better discussion about it. I don’t want people to think that I just didn’t have much time so just blindly voted what I assumed during all of D2. And I don’t want to feel guilty of that myself. I’m assuming I’ll alreagy get some flak from Nook about how dense I was on him. And if you’re town, I’m sure this is legit annoying and frustrating for you right now, especially considering how I’ve been so heavily leaning town on you for basically the whole game. I feel really worried I’ll get this wrong in F3 and I’ll feel like an idiot lol. But I’ll maybe feel like less of an idiot because, even with a lack of time, I tried to rethink. Or, if after all this, I still vote Durga and I’m wrong, maybe I’ll feel even more stupid. I dunno
You don't know what I'm thinking...because I don't know what I'm doing.

Conq wrote:Fatmo — you are a relentless mountain stream, ever-flowing, slowly but surely carving away at the rock face below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjEgjTfcEJk
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Durga » 14 Jul 2019, 16:53

I'll be on in a few hrs so sorry
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Conq » 14 Jul 2019, 17:34

Re-read Day 1. It’s only about 30 pages.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 14 Jul 2019, 17:49

Not sure of my availability the coming hours.

I don’t feel as good about this as I’d like, but for now I’m still gonna vote for Durga

If I’m wrong and don’t end up changing my vote, I’m sorry everyone.

Oy.

PPE conq, remember I came out D2 scumreading Durga on reread of D1. So I’ve already taken that into account. I just don’t feel as confident as I usually feel in a final day because I just feel like I don’t have a huge scumread at this point. It’s mostly more that you’ve just done more things I think seem townie. Some have seemed very townie. But bleh, I don’t feel that confident in my reads on either of you in general. You two are way more familiar with each other than I am with either of you.

With my lack of ability to push either of you much today, I’m gonna feel pretty icky voting either of you and being wrong.
You don't know what I'm thinking...because I don't know what I'm doing.

Conq wrote:Fatmo — you are a relentless mountain stream, ever-flowing, slowly but surely carving away at the rock face below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjEgjTfcEJk
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Fatmo » 14 Jul 2019, 18:04

Conq, how bad do you think my theory is about why you and Aes would NK Kim? You’ve just insisted that you never would, but I’ve pointed out a way that can make sense. Sure, yea, what you say could also be very true, in that why would you kill Kim if she had agility and townread both you and Aes. But I just feel like that can actually make that kill make sense for you guys as a gambit, part of which could have been you coming out the next day acting so perplexed about that kill. Plus she’s a good player and can change her reads.

But ugh, why hasn’t Durga pointed out any of the stuff I’ve found during the game? And why did Aes try to turn around the vote to Nook from Durga for the reason he stated? And there’s still Durga’s Eod1. Agh.

Hopefully I can be around a bit later. Can’t promise. This feels ehh.

So sorry conq that I couldn’t be around when you could be around this phase.
You don't know what I'm thinking...because I don't know what I'm doing.

Conq wrote:Fatmo — you are a relentless mountain stream, ever-flowing, slowly but surely carving away at the rock face below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjEgjTfcEJk
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Conq » 14 Jul 2019, 18:56

Fatmo wrote:Conq, how bad do you think my theory is about why you and Aes would NK Kim? You’ve just insisted that you never would, but I’ve pointed out a way that can make sense. Sure, yea, what you say could also be very true, in that why would you kill Kim if she had agility and townread both you and Aes. But I just feel like that can actually make that kill make sense for you guys as a gambit, part of which could have been you coming out the next day acting so perplexed about that kill. Plus she’s a good player and can change her reads.

But ugh, why hasn’t Durga pointed out any of the stuff I’ve found during the game? And why did Aes try to turn around the vote to Nook from Durga for the reason he stated? And there’s still Durga’s Eod1. Agh.

Hopefully I can be around a bit later. Can’t promise. This feels ehh.

So sorry conq that I couldn’t be around when you could be around this phase.

I usually don’t put much stock in a NK. It seemed different to me this game because there was a mechanical reason that made Kim the most high-risk target, so it felt like there had to be a significant reason for the scumteam to prioritize killing Kim to take that risk. But that said, frankly, I considered that same fact and thought it made Aeschines look townier, and I was clearly wrong to do that. So, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t take a NK as the end of the story. I legitimately don’t think I would make that kill as scum, but it should mean less to you considering that I am the one making the point over and over.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Durga » 14 Jul 2019, 21:06

Fatmo wrote:Not sure of my availability the coming hours.

I don’t feel as good about this as I’d like, but for now I’m still gonna vote for Durga

If I’m wrong and don’t end up changing my vote, I’m sorry everyone.

Oy.

PPE conq, remember I came out D2 scumreading Durga on reread of D1. So I’ve already taken that into account. I just don’t feel as confident as I usually feel in a final day because I just feel like I don’t have a huge scumread at this point. It’s mostly more that you’ve just done more things I think seem townie. Some have seemed very townie. But bleh, I don’t feel that confident in my reads on either of you in general. You two are way more familiar with each other than I am with either of you.

With my lack of ability to push either of you much today, I’m gonna feel pretty icky voting either of you and being wrong.


If you're town you've actually, unfortunately, been wrong this entire game.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to convince you that I'm town when you've scum read me the entire game for no real reason.

I also don't like this whole I can't push either of you, I feel bad about this, I'm sorry if I'm wrong thing. You're the most town read one here. Reread the game. Push us with questions. Figure it out Fatmo. Conq has been blatantly buddying you. If you're town you've got to be able to see through this.
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Re: A Very SPECIAL Game Thread of Mafia

Postby Durga » 14 Jul 2019, 21:07

Conq ended his vote on town both days. I actually ended my vote on scum.

I can understand how anyone looks at Aes' actions and concludes that I'm the scum and Conq is town. Even Fatmo is more likely to be scum.
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