Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Conq » 14 Jan 2019, 09:07

Sure, but Nook, why would she fake this confusion over what a Miller is?

It's not an obvious "Oh, scum would know what a miller is" kind of thing.

kimpossible wrote:This... is an interesting point. Because mine has nothing to do with any flavor text, it’s just there.

Though I’m also having a hesitation that we’re skating close to angle shooting and dirty pool.

I don't want to "angle shoot," but her story checks out.
kimpossible wrote:Then I am confused about what a miller is. I thought they both revealed as being a Miller, that that was their role. And I was not talking about the name reveal leaving the station, I was talking about roles, because I thought they had just revealed theirs, and that it would be weird if they both had the same role.

And I didn’t allude to it, I straight up said that it says that I will reveal as innocent. But I read it like a week ago, absorbed what seemed relevant, and didn’t reread it before coming into the thread.

This confusion makes complete sense as something about which someone might be confused, and it does not make much sense as a purposeful and fake "derpclear."
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 14 Jan 2019, 09:13

I genuinely don’t think this is an argument worth having, so...sure.
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Conq » 14 Jan 2019, 09:13

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Confusion over role terminology is fairly easy to fake, so...no town points for that specifically.

The question should not be "is this confusion easy to fake?"

The question should be" Does it make sense as a strategy from scum's perspective to fake this confusion?"

And note that this is a confusion that unfolded over about four posts. It was not a one-off kind of deal. There was the initial posting with an incorrect assumption about a Miller, then someone calling her out on her incorrect assumption, and then Kim questioning and finally learning the correct Miller definition. If this was fake, there was a fare amount of effort.

So, would scum put forth that effort in order to be seen as not knowing what a Miller is? I really don't think so. I don't think my train of logic on that point is all that predictable. I can't really imagine Scum!Kim thinking: "Aha! If they think I don't know what a Miller is, they'll likely conclude that I am not scum because scum would have already discussed claiming 'Miller' during their long Night Zero planning!"

I think there are legitimate questions about whether assuming the wrong definition of "Miller" is alignment indicative, but I'm pretty convinced that the incorrect assumption about the term was genuine.
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Conq » 14 Jan 2019, 09:14

nanooktheeskimo wrote:I genuinely don’t think this is an argument worth having, so...sure.

Why is this not an argument worth having? And what are you agreeing to?
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 14 Jan 2019, 09:17

Conq wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:I genuinely don’t think this is an argument worth having, so...sure.

Why is this not an argument worth having? And what are you agreeing to?

I agree with the conclusion that Kim is town. And I’m not super interested in a primarily semantics argument that’s borderline angle shooting.
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Conq » 14 Jan 2019, 09:31

Okay, so, I've scanned some discussion of Shadow's "one of my roles" post, but I only read her initial post just now. I went in really expecting to get a scumread from it based on some of the ensuing discussion. But, from my read of the original...I don't see it.
shadowface wrote:One of my roles:
"You're a [generic mafia role with no flavor]"

The other one:
"Also you're a miller because [flavor text related to the kind of thing you'd read about in a John Grisham book]"

It has nothing to do with 'because I'm a snitch' to be villagery in and of itself'. Why would you think that? It's that Durga claimed that she was a miller for a flavor related reason too that made me think it sounds like a similar format to my miller flavor text.

If you don't believe this, whatever, just see my flip. I can't argue with it because it's legit my role, if you don't believe it there's nothing I can do about that.

The way this reads, "generic mafia role" seems clearly to reference a power role in the game of mafia, e.g., Doctor, Cop, Bulletproof, etc. The "a" before the bracket, and the fact that it says there is no flavor clearly shows that Shadow did not mean "one of my character names." She means her character has two roles. E.g., Doctor and Miller.

Not saying Shadow is town. This is NAI. But I don't believe it is a #scumslip.
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Conq » 14 Jan 2019, 09:59

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Sorry for hogging up so much space!

I get where the suspicion of him comes from, but I'm begging you guys, let's not go down this "Kill Agni cause he did something we don't like!" road. Ya'll saw how that went in Christmas Mafia.

Think about it from his POV. This is his third playdip game here. Dune's rules didn't mention town being able to talk privately. Christmas' rules didn't mention it. This game's rules do mention it. Isn't it a reasonable jump for him to make an "Oh, that must be a thing!" jump, right?

And that's not to mention that, at least in the three Fable games I've played before this, there has been a way for town to talk to each other! So if we're reading it as a slip, if anything it's a slip that his partner is experienced with sjg games...and that's way too tea leafy for me.

So yeah, it'd be nice if Agni was more engaging and opened up his thoughts a bit more, but this seems silly to scumread him for to me.

Hmmm...this defense of Agni on page 21 seemed strange to me. It felt like the sense of urgency was not commensurate with the pressure on Agni at that point. Insincere. More like "Hey I'm making a big production out of defending Agni" at a time when Agni did not seem to be under all that much pressure.

Can someone else (Nook included) go back and look at that part of the thread, and tell me what they think about this?
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby Myloninja13 » 14 Jan 2019, 12:34

AhhhHHHHHHH I hate disappointing you guys but I missed out on doing stuff here AGAIN. But, I implore y'all that I'll catch up tomorrow for sure (I'm home alone :D ). And to have a safety precaution, if I *Don't* catch up tomorrow I'll replace out of this game so you guys can get someone who can actually be timely lol.

But watch out scummy scumz, tomorrow Mylo is putting on his big pants and solving the game and catching you all!
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby UFO Fever » 14 Jan 2019, 14:07

UpsideDownChuck wrote:
UFO Fever wrote:
Durga wrote:Is sjg the type of troll who puts in two millers after last game?? Someone who knows him pls tell me


The question would then be, is SJG the type of troll that puts in 2 millers, but also gives all 3 scum godfather roles? and when thinking of the second half of that question I answer, no.


So this is a funny post by UFO. It seems like he's assuming that any scum with a guilty IR will claim miller, and thus if there are two town millers than all 3 scum must not have guilty IR's and thus must be godfathers. That is clearly an incorrect assumption, and my first thought is that it is so daft that it must come from town, especially since it is an implied assumption and not stated outright and his commitment to it is strong. My second thought is that if he think's there is 1 wolf among SF/Durga, than doesn't it follow by his logic that there are 2 godfathers, and shouldn't that also unlikely seeming to him. It seems like if he thought about this at all he'd realize it was incorrect, and thus maybe he shouldn't hold it. I will say I've got some good 'holistic' feels on UFO halfway through his iso and feel like I can sense genuine solviness and curiosity in his questions and ideas.


I personally think anyone that will IR flip as scum should tell us. I can see Nanook's point that if EVERY scum did that it'd look weird and we'd just kill all miller claims. BUT, I have a hard one refusing to believe that NOT A SINGLE SCUM wouldn't claim miller to save themselves from a cop investigation at night, especially when there are actual millers in the game.

THAT BEING SAID, with the 4 cops reveal, it could make sense that no scum has claimed miller, especially if scum knew that there are unreliable cops in this game. The only way for scum to know that is if a cop is a rat. So, I'm still advocating a Shadow lynch to find out rat info. Since we all seem to have a general town vibe from Durga (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there) I think that if Shadow flips town that will all but confirm to me that the cops have a rat.
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Re: Fable Mafia 12- Graduation Day Game Thread

Postby kimpossible » 14 Jan 2019, 15:00

@Conq: I had come to the same conclusion about names. I said as much, but maybe it was unclear because I didn't spell it out as precisely as you, but it was the reasoning behind thinking we should reveal names, because the cover identities are not assigned independently of alignment. Sjg straight up said he intended it to be tricky for anyone trying to read into it, but that means there is something there that could potentially be a clue.

I also like the point on ZZ getting tilted. At the risk of using too much personal knowledge, the "Whatever, I'm wrong" attitude is one I've seen when he's not getting what he thinks is the right outcome on something. So if he's in, or been in, a big fight with one of us in another thread, and came out of it not getting the reveals he indicated he wanted here, I can see that attitude and some of his comments making sense.
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