AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

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AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby mhsmith0 » 11 May 2018, 01:01

Game 1 https://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play ... _id=144490
FRANCE chaserh11
AUSTRIA mhsmith0 (SOLO WIN)

Game 2 https://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play ... _id=144491
FRANCE mhsmith0 (SOLO WIN)
AUSTRIA chaserh11


Given that there’s been some interest in this pair of games in the tourney observation thread, I’ll just drop it in as an AAR for further discussion. I’m also going to try and do something a touch different here, running “simultaneous” commentary on the two games I was playing in. For each phase, top/left photo is my Austria game, bottom/right photo is my France game.
Also: early on I’ll reference captainmeme’s excellent overview of opening strategy, at https://captainmeme.wordpress.com/2017/ ... -openings/ (stuff like “anti-Alpine, “Swiss Split”, etc all come from him)

Image Image
Spring 1901
As Austria: I opened anti-Alpine (TYR/VEN/RUM or GAL) against Swiss Split (ENG/PIC/PIE) a very non-standard opening (Swiss Split is ENG/BUR/PIE, this looked more like a misorder?). In a high level game, anti-Alpine against Swiss Split basically wins you the game outright, as France being a build down is HARD to overcome. Throw in no bodies on Munich and the advantage is even greater (since France doesn't even have the option of bouncing Munich).

As France: I opened Belgian Waffle (ENG/PIC/BUR). Against Anti-Alpine, this opening helps to equalize France’s chances. Against Russian Opening (VEN/GAL/RUM), it creates an outright advantage, since I’m able to take Munich unopposed AND not suffer being -1 in builds early.

Image Image

Fall 1901
As Austria: I’m able to take Munich unopposed. France in this situation will inevitably be stuck at -1 builds going into the turn, but as France you basically have a choice of bouncing in Munich and then doing whatever with your southern army (in which case you might as well try for Tuscany I guess) or allowing Austria into Munich while you take Belgium, in which case you should be moving to Tyrolia to try and at least get your army into a tactically strong position and see if you can shake out something interesting in future turns. IMO this got the worst of both worlds, which basically meant that I considered the game won barring major blunders on my end already.

As France: Here I’m in Munich AND I have a full three builds AND Austria’s navy is in a low utility position (being in Venice is useful to counter a French Piedmont move, but it’s two years away from Tunis, which means that it’s really not any kind of offensive threat, which means that I have a lot of options since zero of my key interests are under any real threat. Austria moving into Bulgaria instead of Sevastopol was a blunder IMO; if you’re committing to abandonment of the German front I think you need to be making a beeline into Scandinavia and force STP by 1902. An army in Bulgaria is years away from any front line, which means that I get even more freedom to move as I wish.

Image Image
Winter 1901
As Austria: I have an extra build, and since France is -1 on builds, I don’t really need to prioritize a navy build, and can instead reinforce my claims on Germany and/or Italy. Budapest army is also flexible to go towards Warsaw, Sevastopol, or Bulgaria as I wish. I would rate this position as a commanding lead for Austria - not really recoverable for France unless I make serious blunders.

As France: Probably the most notable thing I do here is build A Mar. In this situation, Austria cannot press Piedmont at all, so I’m able to move there and start to use that unit to mess with Austria. Everything else is basically just set up to move towards the front lines in some manner. I would rate this position as a solid lead for France - difficult for Austria to recover but probably not impossible.

Image Image
Spring 1902
As Austria: I start moving my navy to be in a less awkward position, and get my Tri army build where it can start to be useful. I also take a shot at Burgundy, but mainly I’m trying to block france from vacating Paris, since that then puts his unit a turn behind, and gives me the ability to spend the fall turn not worrying about Munich’s safety.

As France: I think I was actually figuring I’d bounce with Austria’s Warsaw army, but the move succeeding is great for me, as I have a free shot at moving behind Austria’s defensive wall and majorly puncturing the stalemate line.

Image Image
Fall 1902
As Austria: Note two key movements here. First, I continue to attack Burgundy – if France wants that army out of Paris (and being stuck in Paris means France is stuck at TWO builds, when he’s already -1) he’ll need to slow down his Ruhr unit in order to do it. Second, I’m aggressively moving into Piedmont. This will allow me to harass French movements in future seasons. Instead of being able to build a fleet in Marseilles and sail it towards TYS/Tunis, France is going to be stuck defending Marseilles. This then means that I’m able to mess with French units in TWO of his home centers.

As France: There’s no real reason NOT to take a shot at Warsaw here. If it succeeds, great If it fails, then that means that Austria’s Prussia unit is stuck in place, and I can try for Berlin in 1903. I also run the risk of losing Munich (TYR-Munich supported by Bohemia succeeds) but I have no particular need to care. Kiel, Denmark, and Spain all succeed, and I overall have strong enough positioning that the value of a single extra build really isn’t that big of a deal, all the more so since if Austria DOES take Munich, that means that I get an army in Tyrolia and/or Austria’s Trieste army is stuck in place (so he only gets 2 builds too) and/or I get Warsaw (in which case I get three builds). This turn went better than expected, mainly because (I presume) Austria got nervous about losing Galicia and rolled the dice that he’d get a bounce there.

Image Image
Winter 1902
As Austria: I’m in Munich and Piedmont and STP, can be in Norway and Tunis unopposed in 1903, and France has two units stuck in Italy (getting Rome and Naples is nice but that’s a major portion of France’s forces that are stuck in “never going anywhere else” land), and a unit stuck in Paris, and a unit stuck in Marseilles. I consider this position to be a lock win for Austria.

As France: I also consider this position to be essentially a won game. I have a numbers edge in units (since I got 3 builds and Austria 2), and basically every unit I have is in a useful position. I can pretty easily lock down Germany and Scandinavia, I can force and hold Tunis before long, I’m south of the Versailles line with my Warsaw army, and I can send my Brest fleet build north or south as I wish.

The rest to follow when I have more time...
Last edited by mhsmith0 on 11 May 2018, 22:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby sinnybee » 11 May 2018, 02:16

I really think this is best suited for the tournaments forum, where we can keep all 2PC Tourney stuff together. Also, I think it more likely that someone looking through the tournament forum (like other 2PC Tourney players) would want to see this rather than someone looking through the general AARs forum. If you or TTBen agree, we can get a mod to move this over.

mhsmith0 wrote:Given that there’s been some interest in this pair of games in the tourney observation thread

EDIT: Thank you, champinoman :)

mhsmith0 wrote:Also: early on I’ll reference captainmeme’s excellent overview of opening strategy, at https://captainmeme.wordpress.com/2017/ ... -openings/ (stuff like “anti-Alpine, “Swiss Split”, etc all come from him)

Aren't you fancy pantsy :)

Well, enjoy writing 2PC Tourney AARs while you can, because you may only have a couple more ahead of you :P
Last edited by sinnybee on 11 May 2018, 02:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby champinoman » 11 May 2018, 02:21

sinnybee wrote:What? Link please.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57823
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby mhsmith0 » 11 May 2018, 04:35

I'm fine moving this wherever. ideally we'd have a subforum under the tournaments section where we can put everything for the 2pc tourney. Is that something that anyone knows who to contact to make that happen?
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 11 May 2018, 05:17

mhsmith0 wrote:I'm fine moving this wherever. ideally we'd have a subforum under the tournaments section where we can put everything for the 2pc tourney. Is that something that anyone knows who to contact to make that happen?

Will take care of this tomorrow.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby mhsmith0 » 11 May 2018, 05:19

Part two of the AAR…

Image Image
Spring 1903
As Austria: War-Pru is somewhat unusual, but in this case, I figured that I might want to move my Bohemian army into Silesia in the fall, which meant that occupying Prussia would allow me to attack Berlin without letting. Also note that I’m giving France Naples unopposed at the benefit of freeing up my navy to take Tunis and then be a pain in the butt to France in the western med. And the further south the French army goes in the Italian Peninsula, the more isolated that army is from threatening anything outside of the peninsula. I do lose Piedmont (which is a bit unfortunate), but I force my army into Venice, and with Venice and Tyrolia occupied and a French army that no longer borders Venice, A Trieste is now freed to vacate the center in the fall and allow me to build there. Note by contrast that France’s Paris army is STILL stuck in the same place. My unthreatened control of Munich allows me to constrain and hassle France even without actually getting into Burgundy. Also look at the distribution of units on the board. Other than the Italian peninsula, France isn’t across the Versailles line or really even close. Meanwhile I’m in Munich and Norway, I’m threatening Berlin, and overall I’m in a powerful offensive position to continue to pressure France and potentially seize a bunch of key centers.

As France: Here I lose Munich, but look at what I’ve gained. I’m occupying Warsaw, and have two units threatening Vienna, and I can take Berlin and Tunis in the fall. Austria in Piedmont is inconvenient since I’ll need to defend it, but it’s a minor issue as long as I don’t let him in.
Debatably I blundered by not bouncing Piedmont with Marseilles (a bounce there means that I can vacate Marseilles risk free in the fall) but it was a minor thing imo.

ImageImage
Fall 1903:
As Austria: Up north I allow France into Sweden. He gets a build, but this puts his navy a full move away from being able to support Berlin and Kiel. France also stops bouncing me in Burgundy, which lets me in and I’m able to put another army into Munich, giving me essentially full control over Germany. I also lose control of Venice, but I gain the ability to threaten Marseilles, and I’ve vacated Triest so I can build there and pad my unit count. That Serbian army is also not really needed to fight France, and is freed up to seize centers in Turkey going forward.

As France: my Vienna guess is flat-out lucky, and I’m able to occupy an Austrian home center while also grabbing Galicia. Austria does get Moscow and Sevastopol, but my positioning is increasingly strong and dot count isn’t that big of a deal, even more so since Austria will be stuck at 2 or fewer builds for as long as I have units in his home centers neighborhood… and it’s just one this year since he’s got an army in Trieste.

ImageImage
Winter 1903:
As Austria: France is actually able to outbuild me this turn. BUT look at that positioning. France’s units will be busy for a while trying to get rid of my Burgundy army, while most of the rest of the board will be open for my expansion. France is also just about out of easy center gains, while my Serbia army can grab one more every year, and I can potentially start rolling up the easy eastern centers.

As France: Not sure the builds are all that interesting here tbh.

ImageImage
Spring 1904:
As Austria: My Norway army is in position to force Sweden navy to stay put or lose a build, which gives me more leverage over Germany. I get into Berlin, and my Munich army will take Kiel unopposed in the fall. I also retake Venice DESTROYING that French army. The chart isn’t clear on it, but I moved Bur-Marseilles to cut a potential support (I obviously retreat to Belgium to occupy a French Center even if just for half a turn). I also move my navy west; if somehow I can sneak into MAO, I can cut off Brest from being able to do anything useful, and possibly work my way into the North Sea and take full control of Scandinavia and/or England.

As France: I retake Munich, and I keep moving south and east. Vienna is lost but Budapest is found. Harassment of Austrian home centers gets even more pronounced. I do allow Austria into Ruhr, which can then become a raider, but a single unit isn’t that dangerous, as long as I can run up the unit builds, since that solitary army won’t really have any friends in the area (Piedmont is well isolated as well, particularly since Gascony can cover Marseilles)

ImageImage
Fall 1904
As Austria: I lose Belgum (I actually held here) but can easily retreat into Holland. And the cost to France of retaking Belgium is another unit into Munich and an even stronger chokehold. Note again that A Norway is controlling F Sweden; if France wishes to turn Sweden loose and have it influence Germany, he does so at the cost of a supply center. Warsaw falls but I’ll have enough builds to liberate it if needed. I also swap Venice for Rome which is fine. Mainly I want to avoid Italy turning into a loss more than I need to take those centers; that’s also why I moved Tri-Adr, as I valued the extra build there more than holding Venice for a turn.

As France: I lose Budapest, but I keep Vienna, and retreat to Serbia, and Austria can get ZERO builds due to occupation of his home centers. I also grab STP while the grabbing is good. Note also that I’m pressuring Ionian, which by bouncing prevents F Greece from getting into any position to attack.

ImageImage
Winter 1904
As Austria: I build that extra fleet into Trieste in case it matters. France is able to build F Brest which is annoying but I don’t need MAO at this point. With full control over Germany, meaningful influence over Scandinavia, and a nice stack of free extra centers in the southeast, it’s basically inevitability now. At best, France can extend the game until 1906, but there’s no just way he can keep the game alive longer than that.

As France: Similarly to my Austrian position, there’s a single enemy unit past my lines, but I have multiple of my own past my opponents’. A 1905 win is difficult, but Ionian Sea can’t be defended long term, and I’ve got multiple blank centers and free units that can take them.

I can talk through 1905-6 (I got lucky as Austria in spring 1905 getting into Sweden, and then from there I could force Denmark and that got me past 17; as France I debatably should have just ignored A Belgium and plowed forward using Brest to grab Portugal and tried for 18 that turn) but I’m not sure that there’s very much to say at that point. Hopefully my thoughts here have been interesting at least :)
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby sinnybee » 11 May 2018, 06:59

I must admit, pretty damn impressive, mhsmith0.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby IvarGizteb » 11 May 2018, 22:20

Hugely impressive. I certainly do not have the tactical strength to be able to succeed at the 2-player challenge like this.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby badivan1 » 12 May 2018, 09:34

If France opens with a Piedmont opening (Par-Bur, Mar-Pie) against the Anti-Alpine (Tri-Ven, Vie-Tyl), they should follow up with a move to Tyrolia (Bur-Bel, Pie-Tyl) by allowing Austria to move in to Munich (usually Tyl-Mun). France has to make up the disadvantage by threatening to capture a center and hopefully catch up.
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Re: AAR 2pc Tourney Round One mhsmith0 vs chaserh11

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 17 May 2018, 06:17

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:I'm fine moving this wherever. ideally we'd have a subforum under the tournaments section where we can put everything for the 2pc tourney. Is that something that anyone knows who to contact to make that happen?

Will take care of this tomorrow.

Bit late, but it's set up. Working on getting TTBen set up as a mod for the new subforum :)
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