Main Event Mafia: Game Thread (GAME OVER N3)

[asudevil]

Telleo, if there’s time to change it, I can’t lose to the 8 of diamonds... I have a 10, a King and an Ace
lol

You can take a fall still, I think, right? Intentional Disqualification? You only get to use it once a game, but might be worth using here?

Although, I'm much more comfortable with SJG having the belt now than I was, so maybe this isn't so necessary. And Telleo switching her card is obviously easier (I'm not sure if she has something to beat a ten, I don't recall her hand...off hand... )

I am no more ok with SJG being the champ than ever.

[asudevil]

When is deadline. I could throw to help as well ... especially cause we don't want scum helping SJG if we know the suit.

Its a big reason why I didn't say what suits I had. I told numbers...but not suits so that people couldn't cheat to screw me cause they don't know for SURE if they would be caught.

[kimpossible]

Apologies for my continued lower-than-normal activity level. I am still pretty sick and I don’t really have the option of just taking a few days off work to sleep (small IT shop, boss on vacation, I’m the only one who can fix it if something goes wrong with payroll, etc etc), so I just have very little to give the game mentally.

Where I am right now is that a lot of people have done things that could seem sketchy in the right light, but could also have reasonable explanations. Sjg’s been weird, but his RL stuff makes me want to reevaluate if “weird” is “weird enough.” Telleo has done things I didn’t like, but we got our differences of opinion there worked out.

Chuck and Joe both seem reasonably towny to me, though I’ve never actually gotten to see Joe PLAY before so this is “do I think he’s making sense” and “do his actions seem towny?”

Nanook... I don’t know. I’ve had some tonal issues with him, but at other times he sounds tonally the way I expect him to. I’m not giving townpoints to him for not revealing whatever the rest of his ability is, but I think it would be a mistake to jump to a scumread based on that, and that leaves me feeling like it’s not sufficient basis for a vote.

Which brings me to ASU, RedSun, and Dwiltse, who are falling to the bottom primarily because I am finding them inscrutable. I know I’ve defended RedSun a couple times here, but on review, what I think I’m missing is a sense of scumhunting taking place. He’s telling us his thoughts and I’m less bothered by the way they progress without a lot of thread-laid groundwork because I’m kinda accustomed to him wanting to play his cards close to the chest... BUT. I don’t see much question-asking, much attempt to actually engage other people. In short... much scumhunting.

I’m also concerned about Dwiltse, who seems to me like he’s dodging repeated requests to ask his damn questions and stop alluding to “stuff he’s seen.” And Nanook had a good point: why the hell is he rolehunting by speculating about me and Joe?

ASU is more in just a “I’m not sure right now” place. Not really a scumread. Not entirely a townread either though. I just need to see how he progresses.

So I’m moving to a RedSun vote because even accounting for the way I know he plays, I see... like, nothing in the way of scumhunting. Srsly. Does anyone else?

And now I’m going to drag my exhausted self to work and hope bronchitis doesn’t turn into pneumonia.

@sjg: you’re always welcome to join the Fuck February Club. It’s when I get hit with seasonal depression that compounds my bipolar disorder and sometimes “not crying today” is a personal victory. YAY ADULT LIFE.

PPE: Oh, there’s ASU showing up. Ask and I shall receive, apparently.

[Zoomzip]

Checkpoint #2
All Power Tokens for D1 Uppercard are Finalized

nanooktheeskimo (2): Dwiltse1114, UpsideDownChuck
Dwiltse1114 (2): JoeHoya06, nanooktheeskimo
RedSun (2): kimbyrle, sjg11
JoeHoya06 (1): asudevil
SJG11 (1): RedSun
No vote (1): Telleo

[kimpossible]

Attn Town: I've been thinking this over, and I think it's probably the right time to bring it up.

I have an ability based on my relationship with UDC of having studied him extensively. And I think openly revealing it so we can discuss its use is the only option I have, because just trying it and seeing what happens could be terrible if town isn't prepared for it.

Once per game, I can use UDC's role ability like it was my own. Just once, and I won't know what the role is until I do it and see what happens. I also don't know exactly when it will happen -- ZZ told me it would depend on the move I was copying, but that it would occur at the first legal opportunity.

I think this gives me essentially a pseudo-cop check on UDC. If I try it and I injure someone... welp. That probably tells us something. Or I could try it and get some interesting towny ability. And if he has a one-time ability and has already used it, nothing will happen.

Or I can just not do it. But I think it has the potential to get us valuable information on his alignment either way, and after a lot of thought, I decided I simply was unwilling to ever just try it and see what happens without outing the ability first, so not outing it was basically the same as deciding to just never use it. So I'm outing it now so we can discuss.

[Nanook]

Agree with Telleo...and disagree with Nanook...UDC was holding the spot so that when SJG back tracked...he could say that he saw it. But he didn't want to out SJG in case he had a plan. You are holding onto what (assuming you are telling the truth) is a terrible power at the cost of a lynch vote. Not worth it.

And UDC wasn't prodded for that info...he revealed it ASAP after SJG did. He wasn't really asked about it...nor was he voted for it. Otherwise he probably would have said something. Im liking my Nanook vote more and more

1. And your point is? Again...he had a secret...that he kept until it had no value to be secret...I have a secret...which I'll share when it has no value as a secret anymore. Explain to me the difference please, other than that I'm being more annoying about it?

2. Chuck has said differently, that he probably would've held onto it if pushed. And again...he revealed it asap AFTER it was no longer useful as a secret...I promise you, as soon as I don't see value in keeping this secret, I will reveal it asap. While I still see value in it, you can suck it up, buttercup.

Difference is...he wasn't getting any heat / votes for his secret...you are.

...and? You don't know the secret, therefore you can't make a value judgment whether it's worth the two votes I'm getting for it (one really, yours came before it if memory serves).

In your opinion, should town reveal a secret that is pro-town to be kept a secret as soon as someone votes them for having a secret? I'm genuinely curious if that's your stance.

[Nanook]

Attn Town: I've been thinking this over, and I think it's probably the right time to bring it up.

I have an ability based on my relationship with UDC of having studied him extensively. And I think openly revealing it so we can discuss its use is the only option I have, because just trying it and seeing what happens could be terrible if town isn't prepared for it.

Once per game, I can use UDC's role ability like it was my own. Just once, and I won't know what the role is until I do it and see what happens. I also don't know exactly when it will happen -- ZZ told me it would depend on the move I was copying, but that it would occur at the first legal opportunity.

I think this gives me essentially a pseudo-cop check on UDC. If I try it and I injure someone... welp. That probably tells us something. Or I could try it and get some interesting towny ability. And if he has a one-time ability and has already used it, nothing will happen.

Or I can just not do it. But I think it has the potential to get us valuable information on his alignment either way, and after a lot of thought, I decided I simply was unwilling to ever just try it and see what happens without outing the ability first, so not outing it was basically the same as deciding to just never use it. So I'm outing it now so we can discuss.

So, immediate thought here is that it doesn't really provide a pseudo-cop check on Chuck, I don't think. Unless you do it and are specifically told that you've got a NK now, then yeah, but otherwise...I mean, couldn't injuring someone be a vig-like town power too? Not that vigs are always town, but in this case they're as like to be town as they are scum.

And what would be a towny ability that scum wouldn't have? If you get an IR, then yeah, that's probably town. But let's say for the sake of argument that Chuck had my power--that doesn't really tell you anything about alignment, because it's a power both alignments can have.

So I think this could be useful for sure, how useful probably depends on what exactly Chuck's power is (note that I'm NOT suggesting he reveal at this point in time), but it's not necessarily a pseudo-cop check, that depends a LOT on the specific power that you ended up copying.

Do you know if you have to use it once copied? So for example if Chuck does have a vig-like role where he can injure someone at night, could you copy it and then...not use it? Or is it more of a blind copy? If it's a blind copy, that carries some risk to use, but if you've got the choice once you copy him to use it or not, I'm not seeing much risk?

[kimpossible]

Attn Town: I've been thinking this over, and I think it's probably the right time to bring it up.

I have an ability based on my relationship with UDC of having studied him extensively. And I think openly revealing it so we can discuss its use is the only option I have, because just trying it and seeing what happens could be terrible if town isn't prepared for it.

Once per game, I can use UDC's role ability like it was my own. Just once, and I won't know what the role is until I do it and see what happens. I also don't know exactly when it will happen -- ZZ told me it would depend on the move I was copying, but that it would occur at the first legal opportunity.

I think this gives me essentially a pseudo-cop check on UDC. If I try it and I injure someone... welp. That probably tells us something. Or I could try it and get some interesting towny ability. And if he has a one-time ability and has already used it, nothing will happen.

Or I can just not do it. But I think it has the potential to get us valuable information on his alignment either way, and after a lot of thought, I decided I simply was unwilling to ever just try it and see what happens without outing the ability first, so not outing it was basically the same as deciding to just never use it. So I'm outing it now so we can discuss.

So, immediate thought here is that it doesn't really provide a pseudo-cop check on Chuck, I don't think. Unless you do it and are specifically told that you've got a NK now, then yeah, but otherwise...I mean, couldn't injuring someone be a vig-like town power too? Not that vigs are always town, but in this case they're as like to be town as they are scum.

And what would be a towny ability that scum wouldn't have? If you get an IR, then yeah, that's probably town. But let's say for the sake of argument that Chuck had my power--that doesn't really tell you anything about alignment, because it's a power both alignments can have.

Well my thought here is that with no factional night kill, it seems likely that scum would have a role ability (not relationship ability, role ability) that lets them do something nefarious. If I try it and something nefarious happens, that's a clue.

So I think this could be useful for sure, how useful probably depends on what exactly Chuck's power is (note that I'm NOT suggesting he reveal at this point in time), but it's not necessarily a pseudo-cop check, that depends a LOT on the specific power that you ended up copying.

Do you know if you have to use it once copied? So for example if Chuck does have a vig-like role where he can injure someone at night, could you copy it and then...not use it? Or is it more of a blind copy? If it's a blind copy, that carries some risk to use, but if you've got the choice once you copy him to use it or not, I'm not seeing much risk?

Yeah, the wording is essentially (without directly quoting) that I won't know what it's going to do, I just do it and it happens. So there's no choice not to use his ability once I use mine.

[Nanook]

Well my thought here is that with no factional night kill, it seems likely that scum would have a role ability (not relationship ability, role ability) that lets them do something nefarious. If I try it and something nefarious happens, that's a clue.

This isn't really accurate. I mean, it might be accurate, but we don't know if it is or not. I suspect it's not, and I refer you to this section of the rules for why:
[quote="Eliminations Section of the Rules]Players may be eliminated in up to four ways: Elimination Vote, Night Action, Injury (see Special Match Moves: Big Spot), and GM Elimination (Modkill)[/quote]
Emphasis mine. So the scum don't have a traditional NK, we know that from the rules, but night action kill to me sounds like either a scum directed kill or a vig. I'd hope that a town vig would have revealed by now given the explicit lack of a traditional NK and thus lowered incentive for them not to come forward, so I'd speculate that this means either the scum have a NK of some sort, or there is some way for them to remove a player from the game.

I feel dangerously close to rolefishing asking this...are we assuming that anyone with a role ability outside of their relationship mechanic is scum? That's kind of interesting, if so.

If that question is too close to rolefishing, then please by all means ignore it!

[quote]Yeah, the wording is essentially (without directly quoting) that I won't know what it's going to do, I just do it and it happens. So there's no choice not to use his ability once I use mine.[/quote]
Ah, yeah, that does make it tougher to use. And Chuck can't really tell you if it's something you should definitely be copying, because if he does then he's revealing that he has a town-positive power and therefore is a good target for a possible NK, if they exist (which I, personally, am assuming that some form of scum-driven NK exists, cause why have that in the rules if it doesn't, and also cause I prefer to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised.

[Nanook]

Well my thought here is that with no factional night kill, it seems likely that scum would have a role ability (not relationship ability, role ability) that lets them do something nefarious. If I try it and something nefarious happens, that's a clue.

This isn't really accurate. I mean, it might be accurate, but we don't know if it is or not. I suspect it's not, and I refer you to this section of the rules for why:

Players may be eliminated in up to four ways: Elimination Vote, Night Action, Injury (see Special Match Moves: Big Spot), and GM Elimination (Modkill)

Emphasis mine. So the scum don't have a traditional NK, we know that from the rules, but night action kill to me sounds like either a scum directed kill or a vig. I'd hope that a town vig would have revealed by now given the explicit lack of a traditional NK and thus lowered incentive for them not to come forward, so I'd speculate that this means either the scum have a NK of some sort, or there is some way for them to remove a player from the game.

I feel dangerously close to rolefishing asking this...are we assuming that anyone with a role ability outside of their relationship mechanic is scum? That's kind of interesting, if so.

If that question is too close to rolefishing, then please by all means ignore it!

Yeah, the wording is essentially (without directly quoting) that I won't know what it's going to do, I just do it and it happens. So there's no choice not to use his ability once I use mine.

Ah, yeah, that does make it tougher to use. And Chuck can't really tell you if it's something you should definitely be copying, because if he does then he's revealing that he has a town-positive power and therefore is a good target for a possible NK, if they exist (which I, personally, am assuming that some form of scum-driven NK exists, cause why have that in the rules if it doesn't, and also cause I prefer to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised.


^^fixed for formatting.