Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

[Telleo]

Dodgy, on Day3, you promised Crunkus that your engagement would be improving from that point onward. Do you believe you have lived up to that promise?

yes I do.

So the fact that your participation has demonstrably NOT improved in quantity doesn't concern you?

[Telleo]

And to be clear, I'm not looking for quotes of ME or of CRUNKUS or of SJG doing things that change your mind. I'm looking for quotes of YOU changing your mind.

This will have to wait til tonight when I have access to a computer

Acceptable, as long as it actually happens, unlike many of the other things you've promised in this game.

[Telleo]

I can't find a way to make a night plan that does what Sjg's would have so I think I gotta go with lynching telleo.

You're lynching me out of fear of my scum game, which I can understand and all, but you should really be trying to actually read my engagement and Dodgy's and come up with a REASON to kill me.

You owe me a case.

Sjg and Crunkus both told me to do this.

They're confirmed town, so they aren't being malevolent and trying to lead me astray. Even if mistaken, they're coming from a genuinely town place.
I doubt they are mistaken.

Sjg and Crunkus are both wrong.

I get that that's not convincing coming from me, but you need to be thinking critically and not just sheeping behind them. If you consider everything, and come to the conclusion that I'm just too scummy to live, kill me. If you come back neutral on me, kill me. But you need to at least look. You owe me, and the rest of the town, that much.

They are both much better at this than I am, and in the time since they both endorsed this plan, nothing has happen that I think would make them change their read. The sole event of note was a severely questionable deviation on your part. I know that you're trying to argue that it's non-indicative, but I don't agree with that. I think you were a) trying to take down one last person before you go, and possibly b) shake things up enough to convince one of us to kill the other. I guess you've decided to target dodgy for that plan.

That's just not the case.

Yes, if I'm scum, that's what I was trying to do.

If I'm town, then what I've said is what I was trying to do.

This just isn't indicative. Remember the conversation with Crunkus? Just because something is plausible as scum, doesn't mean it isn't ALSO plausible as town. Talk to me about why town Telleo just doesn't do this deviation, no matter what.

[Subotai45]

Why does town telleo do this? You say that townTelleo would kill him because he's scum - but clearly, he wasn't. I'm not saying being wrong is scummy, but it's suspicious. We already had a plan set up to avoid bypassing the final three scenario, that would have involved your former claimed scumread and your present claimed scumread killing each other.

I get that towntelleo could have decided to do this, but it seems like a fairly significant contradiction to previous actions you've taken in this game. I think that towntelleo, who thinks crunkus is scum, would have continued to be calm and methodical about this, and complied. I think scumtelleo has much greater motivation to deviate, because she's on the chopping block and has to do something.

[Telleo]

Why does town telleo do this? You say that townTelleo would kill him because he's scum - but clearly, he wasn't. I'm not saying being wrong is scummy, but it's suspicious. We already had a plan set up to avoid bypassing the final three scenario, that would have involved your former claimed scumread and your present claimed scumread killing each other.

And from town Telleo's perspective, the difference last night was...? Obviously he wasn't scum, but I believed he was.

I get that towntelleo could have decided to do this, but it seems like a fairly significant contradiction to previous actions you've taken in this game.

To which previous actions are you referring?

I think that towntelleo, who thinks crunkus is scum, would have continued to be calm and methodical about this, and complied. I think scumtelleo has much greater motivation to deviate, because she's on the chopping block and has to do something.

Because as we all know, I am calm and methodical at all times.

Again, I don't disagree that scum Telleo has motivation to do this. You're still not talking about why Town Telleo DOESN'T have motivation to do this. You're telling me what you expected me to do, but not why, and not why my deviation from your expectations is relevant to my alignment.

[Telleo]

*sigh*

For real now, I gotta go.

[Subotai45]

Earlier in the game you opposed vigging because it unnecessarily endangered the game, but now you decide to do it near the finish line? it doesn't make sense to me.

[dodgy56]

whats the town reason for Killing Crunkus? if he was scum, he would have died toight? why the need to speed the game up if youre town?

...yes?

Look, if I'm town, then I believed Crunkus was scum. So rather than wait through a day of everyone casting Telleo votes and then twiddling their thumbs before killing Crunkus, I figured I'd expedite the process. I was also uninterested in leaving Crunkus with a day to talk his way out of things. I suppose I've left myself now to try to talk my way out of things, but that legitimately didn't occur to me last night at all. I expected the game to be over

this makes no sense. You expect us to give you a chance to talk.your way out of this but you weren't prepared to let crunkus do the same? This is a highly contradictory stance to take if you are town. You say it didn't cross your mind last night. That means you were so confident in crunkus being scum that you weren't looking past that point. In that case there was no reason to not follow the plan as it ensured crunkus died anyway. The only way this makes any sense is if you are scum and needed to try and escape a lynch of yourself.

I don't believe you.

[Subotai45]

We can end the day at any time by the way, if the two of us vote for it.

[dodgy56]

We can end the day at any time by the way, if the two of us vote for it.

personally I'm 99% sure telleo is our last scum so im happy to end the day. I guess it comes down to whether you think anything telleo says can change your mind or if you are happy to end it here.

end day