Mafia CLIV: Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia (Town Win)

[condude1]

This is the game thread for Bigger, Medium, Smaller Mafia. I will post a countdown clock shortly.

Roster:

1. Jordan767, Squashed by vote Day 3.
2. Don Juan of Austria, Squashed by vote Day 1.
3. Zoomzip
4. Harb
5. Happymeal
6. Sjg11, Squashed by vote Day 2.
7.UpsideDownChuck
8. Justy
9. Hoidofthenorth Shadowfriend1

Here are the rules.
Here is the signup thread.

Countdown Clock until end of Day 2.

Game Map:

Shadowfriend1 subs out HoidoftheNorth
Checkpoint #1
End of Day 1 Don Juan of Austria was squashed by vote.

Day 2

Day 2 begins No one was stomped at night.

[condude1]

After a restless night, you all wake up with dread at the thought of having to force someone to their death under Condude's feet. However, when you go outside and see the fresh bloodstain where some poor soul was murdered, your resolve strengthens, and it is agreed that you have to follow through on your gruesome plan, or this bloodshed might spread. It is quickly agreed that no holds should be barred, and that any means of destroying the scourge within the town should be permitted, even stomping those smaller than you.

Day 1 has begun, it will end on Thursday, November 3rd at 2:30 PM PDT.

[Zoomzip]

Good morning all. My name is ZoomZip. My preferred pronouns are he/his or they/their. Whatever floats your boat. It is a pleasure to rejoin you. Hello again to Harb, SJG11, and should she join the game, shadowfriend1 (I doubt you remember me, but we overlapped briefly I think). Condude1, when I left here last you were an aspiring player, I love to see you GMing now.

To (big inhale) Jordan767, Don Juan of Austria, Happymeal, UpsideDownChuck, Justy, and Hoidofthenorth, my personal greetings. You don't know me, but I do enjoy this game, and occasionally am good at it. Sometimes disasterously bad. But sometimes good. Also, (sigh of relief), I am town this game. Awesome. Let's do it.

First, get in thread people. WE HAVE A LOT TO DO IN THE FIRST 24 HOURS. Really. I may even have a plan. Possibly a cunning plan. I can't guarantee town victory, but I think it gives a good shot. Before I explain it though, it is important that you think this game's mechanics through. IT could be really bad for the town. Multiple Night Kills of townies, Hidden vote weights. Blech. So, to help everyone from just popping in and saying "I'm here" I'd like to propose some thought experiments. I want people to weigh in on these alongside our typical fumbling D1 scum hunting:

Question 1: Suppose all players let random.org chose their size. what is the best outcome for the town?
Question 2: Thinking about the result of Question 1, now just suppose the town players got the best outcome, but the scum could select their size. What would they chose to maximize their advantage?
Question 3: Given how you think the scum might react, what should the town do to counteract the scum's plan?

I have given these three questions a great deal of thought. It informed my size selection, and it informs what I am thinking we should do. I hope, really hope, that every townie went through this kind of process already, because if so I think we can set up a good system and perhaps a town advantage for ourselves.

One other thing: NO REVEALS OF SIZE AT THIS TIME. I may or may not have a preference on a D1 reveal (that's a lie -- I definitely have a preference and I will get to that when I show more cards later in this D1) but if we do or do not reveal, we do it together as a town. Or not at all.

[Harb]

Welcome back Zoom! Also pretty excited to be playing with genuine new (to me at least) folks, so welcome Jordan and Hold. Chuck, sorry we aren't scumbuddies this time around. We had a solid run. You scum?

Before I get into answering your questions Zoom, did you read over the previous iteration of this game?

So, Question 1 - Admitting that I have very little talent when it comes to the game theory side, I would think that the best outcome for town is everyone being Large. No one can squish one another, everyone's vote counts the same. Play the game vanilla and life is good. I guess this would be true of any "Everyone is X size" scenario though. So, best result is everyone the same size. If we try and play around too much with ways to allow townies to squish scum or limit scum voting power or make traps to find out who has different amounts of votes, to my mind it just gets muddled.

Question 2 - If the best result for town is everyone being the same size the answer depends on which size the town ends up being and whether the scum know that size. If they do, they respond by choosing whatever size maximizes their chances vis-à-vis the town size. Small for extra hides against Large, Large for the ability to squash Mediums, etc. If they don't know, split the difference and choose a Medium/Small or Medium/Large combo I guess?

Question 3 gives me some trouble since I'm not sure how the scum react. I think I'd generally argue that the town's reaction should be to maintain the same size. The advantages of all town being the same size are pretty sizeable. That's not particularly useful though, given that it's a nigh impossible scenario outside this thought experiment.

I'll also add that I did NOT think about these questions prior to the start of the day. I made my decision based on a different methodology.

[sjg11]

Hi, I exist. I'll post something useful tomorrow when I'm sober.

[Zoomzip]

My thanks to Harb for coming right in and answering some questions. I appreciate it. I have some thoughts on what you said, but I'd like to get some other answers in thread first. Full disclosure: While I think I have the right answer, I'm not interested so much in people agreeing with me or feeling as though they are tested, but seeing that they put some thought into trying to achieve a good overall town situation.

@Harb: To answer your question -- I skimmed the last game twice, got frustrated by how town never quite thought through their size issues. I remember ASUDevil frustrating me in particular. Then I actually sat down to read it, saw SF1 have a rough go of it and thought the lynch was reasonable.

A couple of questions for you (or anyone, if they want to jump in) -- I am more worried about townies killing townies at night than mafia killing townies. Am I wrong in this?

Also, you wrote...

No one can squish one another, everyone's vote counts the same. Play the game vanilla and life is good.

I think you are close to an important truth here. Everyone's vote counts the same -- Given the game mechanics, is there a way we can make this happen anyways?

[Hoidofthenorth]

I'll probably just watch this first day, since I'm new to this way of playing Mafia. I will answer any questions that I feel proficient at, but don't expects me to be the strategist of the group.

[Zoomzip]

I'll probably just watch this first day, since I'm new to this way of playing Mafia. I will answer any questions that I feel proficient at, but don't expects me to be the strategist of the group.

Hoid: Question before you go: If all you do is watch, how is the town to know if you are probably scum or town? How would you like them to be able to judge you? Also, since you are watching, what are you watching for? What would make you want to vote someone to be lynched?

[UpsideDownChuck]

On mobile, so I'll be concise.

ZZ I'm not sure how to answer your questions honestly without effectively size revealing, which I'm against at this moment. I thought about some similar types of questions, and like you it informed my size selection.

Why I'm against size revealing. It lets the mafianfigure out who's M/S and pick them off quickly, rapidly reducing the towns vote power. It also lets them figure out who they need to be worried about potentially vigging them and lets the. Use their hides more effectively. These are both bad.

I do think we should minimize NKing because any mafia who is.both vulnerable (M/S) and scumread will likely hide. Meaning for the first couple nights the only kills that go through will likely be against town. To this end my first thought is that the lynch runner up should size reveal and soak the stomps. This has a greater than rand chance of being scum if we're doing good at identifying scum. And it'll give us info on the lynch if the mafia decides to take advantage and stomp that person (if they're town).

A couple concerns are the possibility of large mafia lying to snare small town. And the fact that we don't know who will actually be the runner up (maybe the top two should reveal?). It will also change how vote data is viewed since the battle between second and third place will become more important, and the battle between first and second less, but I don't know that that's inherently bad.

[UpsideDownChuck]

Also townsjg loves drunknposting