3 Way Draws are for Sissies

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3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Strategus » 14 Aug 2016, 12:02

Having recently played out two games where the resulting three way draw was inevitable from virtually the start of the game (one I was part of the "victory", and one I was not), I have come to the conclusion that players all too often settle for the "safe" option. In my opinion, games that take this direction become predictable, and fundamentally are BORING. Whether you are on the "winning" side or not. This game should be fun. In my opinion, players should go into every game with the intention of trying to win a solo. Not with the intention of avoiding a defeat. It is better to "have a go" and risk defeat, than never to try for a solo in a game. Draws should be as a last resort, not a target. That is my opinion, and I do not expect everyone to agree with this. However, I would like to play ranked games with like-minded individuals, who are prepared to take a risk and reap the reward. I note that this Solos Only forum seems to be a little bit forgotten. I was hoping that I would find some organised games here, but alas there do not seem to have been any for some time. Noting that the "Solos Only" option cannot be ranked, I believe the best solution is the "Handshake Solos only" arrangement, where all players sign up to (roughly) the principles I outlined above. If there is any interest in creating such a game, please register here, and I will create a password game.

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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Laza82 » 14 Aug 2016, 13:44

I am with you.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Sweet Knife » 14 Aug 2016, 15:53

I think there should be tournament with Solo only option .

This is with shame of the 6 way draw we were provided on rthis years DIP golden board
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby OldBaldGuy » 14 Aug 2016, 16:05

I am so with you on this one. Sign me up.

A four-way draw is sometimes necessary, when faced with a 17 SC power, and a stalemate line requires all to hold, or give away the solo.

But the object of this game, IMHO, is to win.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Noefochesgiving » 14 Aug 2016, 17:00

I agree that games should be played at the outset with the aim of a solo. I always want to solo.

However I was recently a 3 way "sissy" in a recent gunboat game (119695) which was one of the most fun I've had in a long time as it was for one of the other players as stated in their EOG. (Perhaps you were not referring to Gunboat which is more challenging to make a draw in. )

At some stage in the game, as often happens, one power gets to around 14 and as Turkey there was no way in hell that I was going to eat up Ia smaller Italy before France got 18. So what should I do? Keep attacking Italy (and France where possible) and see how many supply centres I can get before France gets 18? No I think it is much better to stop attacking Italy and try to set up stalemate lines before its too late. It actually took a lot of ingenuity and risk taking to do so in 119695.

What I find annoying is when powers that have no hope of soloing keep fighting allowing another power to coast to a solo. I think there is another thread recently in a similar vein. I find it a little disappointing even when I solo. At the very end couldn't they put up a better fight?

I like the idea of a solo only game with the proviso that once there is absolutely 0% chance of other powers getting a solo they do try to stop the leader.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Strategus » 14 Aug 2016, 18:04

Noefochesgiving wrote:Perhaps you were not referring to Gunboat which is more challenging to make a draw in.

I have never played a Gunboat game so cannot comment.
Noefochesgiving wrote:At some stage in the game, as often happens, one power gets to around 14 and as Turkey there was no way in hell that I was going to eat up Ia smaller Italy before France got 18. So what should I do? Keep attacking Italy (and France where possible) and see how many supply centres I can get before France gets 18? No I think it is much better to stop attacking Italy and try to set up stalemate lines before its too late. It actually took a lot of ingenuity and risk taking to do so in 119695.

I have no problem with draws per se. I just have an issue with players agreeing to a draw when there is clearly an opportunity for any number of players to try for a solo. For exmple, if two powers were on 13 centres, and the third on 8, it would be reasonable to expect the two on 13 to agree to a race to 18. If I were one of them, I would be disappointed if the other 13 power refused in case I won. It is a rational risk to take. You should back yourself to outsmart your opponent. So let's say they go for it. After a couple of years, one power is on 16, and the other still on 14. It would be quite reasonable to shut up shop. They might fail and the 16 power gets a solo, or may be successful. But at least they tried. I would rather try for a solo and lose than die wondering what might have been.

I suppose there will always be the exceptional situation, but the mind set is the important thing from my point of view.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby edmgrim » 14 Aug 2016, 19:29

I can't comment about a couple specific games because they are ongoing. But I find it somewhat ironic that this thread and a thread about feeling less satisfied by a solo win when a draw was also possible are both he two most recent threads.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby I Love Italy » 14 Aug 2016, 20:13

GPD wrote:
Noefochesgiving wrote:Perhaps you were not referring to Gunboat which is more challenging to make a draw in.

I have never played a Gunboat game so cannot comment.
Noefochesgiving wrote:At some stage in the game, as often happens, one power gets to around 14 and as Turkey there was no way in hell that I was going to eat up Ia smaller Italy before France got 18. So what should I do? Keep attacking Italy (and France where possible) and see how many supply centres I can get before France gets 18? No I think it is much better to stop attacking Italy and try to set up stalemate lines before its too late. It actually took a lot of ingenuity and risk taking to do so in 119695.

I have no problem with draws per se. I just have an issue with players agreeing to a draw when there is clearly an opportunity for any number of players to try for a solo. For exmple, if two powers were on 13 centres, and the third on 8, it would be reasonable to expect the two on 13 to agree to a race to 18. If I were one of them, I would be disappointed if the other 13 power refused in case I won. It is a rational risk to take. You should back yourself to outsmart your opponent. So let's say they go for it. After a couple of years, one power is on 16, and the other still on 14. It would be quite reasonable to shut up shop. They might fail and the 16 power gets a solo, or may be successful. But at least they tried. I would rather try for a solo and lose than die wondering what might have been.

I suppose there will always be the exceptional situation, but the mind set is the important thing from my point of view.



Well, depending on the chemistry of the players, I might very willingly take a three-way as one of the 13 powers.

For example, let's say that the third player (the one at 8) is a very aggressive chainsaw dipper. He says to both of us (the 13ers) that he'll throw the game to the other player if one of us attacks. IF this seems something that would be consistent with how he played earlier in the game, there's no way that I'm attacking him, and it's not likely the other player will either. I think that in that scenario it is perfectly reasonable to accept a three-way draw.
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby Strategus » 14 Aug 2016, 20:26

Agreed. But if you both attack him at once, who does he throw to? Anyway, with players of similar mind set, I think you are more likely to get a competitive outcome than if not. One way to find out...
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Re: 3 Way Draws are for Sissies

Postby schocker » 14 Aug 2016, 22:05

I noticed that GDP has the most points of anybody posting in this thread. He must get more than his share of solos. Ha
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