22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Gelato » 19 May 2014, 15:31

I have a question about Rule #10.

Let's say there are 5 provinces in the following shape, where all except C is occupied by units.
E
B C D
F

If E attacks D. F supports E's attack, and B moves into C,
What happens to the army in D? Does it retreat to C bouncing B off to his original place? Does C get destroyed and B takes C? Does C get destroyed and B bounces off?

And in another example, where C is vacated.
A E
C D
B F

E attcks D with F supporting, and A attacks C with B supporting. What happens to D?
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Peanut » 19 May 2014, 17:46

I'm afraid your examples are difficult to understand, it might be better if you describe an invented scenario on the real board?
But, I'll have a go.
Your question is about Rule #10, which concerns a dislodged unit still being able to cause a stand-off, but in none of your examples does a stand-off take place? I believe you are thinking the stand-off is caused by a retreating unit, but actually the rule is talking about an order during the Movement phase.

In the first example you said that C is the only vacant space, so when you talk about C being destroyed it doesn't make sense as there is no unit in C?

It's important to remember that Retreats happen after Moves, so, in the movement phase:
E moves to D
B moves to C

Then in the retreat phase
D is dislodged (as E had support)
D cannot retreat to F or C as they are occupied, and it can't retreat to E (the space it's attacker came from), so with no other options it gets auto-destroyed.

Had D been ordered to move to C, then D & B would've bounced in C (as per Rule #10) and at the same time D would've been dislodged by the incoming unit from E. D would still be destroyed as you can't retreat to a space left vacant by a stand-off.

The second example is nearly identical, the only diffrence, which isn't clear, is if D & A share a border? (I see now that they don't)

If they do then:

E moves to D
A moves to C

In the following retreat phase D could retreat to A
Alternatively the player controlling D could elect to disband D - you aren't forced to retreat if you don't want to.

There is no opportunity for D to cause a bounce here as the move to C has support

Hope this helps
Last edited by Peanut on 19 May 2014, 18:02, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Gelato » 19 May 2014, 17:53

Oh God... What a terrible mistake combined with ipad space adjustment... I'll make it very clear this time.
B C D E
.......F

Where D is connected to both E,F,
D is being attacked by E,F , retreats to C but B also moves into C.

Another was

A C D E
B......F

Where C is connected to A,B and D is connected to E and F
D is being attacked by E,F , retreats to C but A moves into C with support of B
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Peanut » 19 May 2014, 17:57

I think my reply above still answers your question - I modified it while you were typing your correction.

A retreating unit cannot bounce with a moving unit because movement is resolved before retreats are even considered.
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Gelato » 19 May 2014, 18:07

That clears up my question. Thank you for your help!
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Gelato » 19 May 2014, 18:13

Also, can a fleet convoy only one unit per turn? For example if there is a fleet on English Channel, can he perform two orders:
(a) convoy [Brest --> Wales]
(b) convoy [Picardy --> London]
at the same time?

If not, how can a convoy make it possible for two units to swap place?
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Peanut » 19 May 2014, 18:46

Any unit can only perform one action per season.

The way a convoy allows two units to swap places is as follows:

A(Bre)-Pic
A(Pic)-Bre

These orders would fail at the units meet on the border and cannot overcome each other.

If you add this order

F(ENG) c A(Pic)-Bre

Then both Army moves succeed as no conflict takes place
A(Bre) crossed the Bre/Pic border
A(Pic) takes to the sea and lands on the Bre coast

This is the only way two units can swap provinces

Note: Even this is illeagal
F(Spa)nc-Por
F(Por)-Spa sc
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby Gelato » 03 Jun 2014, 17:09

I have two questions. One is a general question while another is more specific.

To start off with the general question, if a unit supports another to hold, and that supported unit moves into adjecent territory which resulted in stand-off, is the support still valid? For example, if St.P Support Moscow to hold, Moscow moves into Warsaw which is occupied and bounce off, Ukraine moves into Moscow and Sevastopol supports Ukraine's attack, what happens?

The second question is this.
Russia has armies in Tyrolia, Vienna and Galicia.
Italy has an army in Venice.
Turkey has a fleet in Adriatic, armies in Trieste, Budapest and Rumania.

If Venice moves into Trieste,
Vienna and Tyrolia supports Venice's move,
Galicia moves into Budapest,
Adriatic supports Trieste to hold,
Budapest moves into Vienna with Trieste's support,
and Rumania moves into Budapest,

What happens?
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby WHSeward » 03 Jun 2014, 18:45

Lirymambo wrote:I have two questions. One is a general question while another is more specific.

To start off with the general question, if a unit supports another to hold, and that supported unit moves into adjecent territory which resulted in stand-off, is the support still valid?

No. See rules 8 & 9.

Lirymambo wrote:The second question is this.
Russia has armies in Tyrolia, Vienna and Galicia.
Italy has an army in Venice.
Turkey has a fleet in Adriatic, armies in Trieste, Budapest and Rumania.

If Venice moves into Trieste,
Vienna and Tyrolia supports Venice's move,
Galicia moves into Budapest,
Adriatic supports Trieste to hold,
Budapest moves into Vienna with Trieste's support,
and Rumania moves into Budapest,

What happens?

Everything holds.

To figure these cases out, first cut supports
VIE and TRI are both cut. So you are left with

2 v 2 standoff in TRI (TRI, ADR v TRL, VEN)
And everything left is an unsupported attack so nothing is dislodged and everything bounces.
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Re: 22 Rules to Help You Resolve Orders

Postby petermcnamara » 15 Jun 2014, 07:31

I don't think that this is very well known, but there is an online adjudicator at Stabbeurfou http://www.stabbeurfou.org/Interrogation.php where any set of moves can be adjucated (maybe this fact could be advertised somewhere).
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