Submarines! (4 of 7)

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 08 Aug 2020, 13:57

Under the rules as I’ve posted it is three moves. But why on earth would you be underwater in the s Black Sea?? Everyone would know you’re there.

You can only surface where you are, so it would be F Black Sea Surface. F Black Sea Move Constantinople. F Constantinople Dive Aegean Sea.

If you were already at the surface in the a Black Sea you wouldn’t need the first move, to surface.

If a lot of people don’t like the rule, we can try and change it, maybe to allow Underwater in certain land/sea spaces?
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 08 Aug 2020, 16:46

Am I missing something? Why can't a sub move/dive/surface at the same time?

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby springbutt46 » 09 Aug 2020, 05:24

Speaking purely technically, and even considering the tech of the day, a submarine can and does move/dive/surface all at the same time. It is the defining characteristic of the weapon system itself, moving in three dimensions that makes it so lethal and so feared in the first place.
I can certainly see where a specific restriction of being "on the surface" would be in play in the Bosphorus/Constantinople because of its location within Turkey, but I can also say that no such restriction would exist in or about Denmark because those waters are International. Those being the two locations where an army and a fleet can pass without special moves on the board.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 09 Aug 2020, 09:31

There are two different strands here now: the in-game consequences of the Variant Rules as written by @Woolgie; what those Rules should be in the first place.

I was only ever posting for clarity / confirmation on the first strand, and we have that now. As currently written, the Variant Rules have Surface and Dive each being an Order type that occupies a Sub for one turn, with Surface in-place only and Dive in-place or to an adjacent sea space.

I do not claim the ability to predict whether that is the right balance or whether the Surface Order type should also be given the option of adjacent territory rather than just in-place surfacing. Whatever the arguments might be over realism, Subs need to be not OP. I shall be a happy guinea-pig either way, as long as we are clear what the Rules are that we are testing out by playing.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 09 Aug 2020, 15:52

I think having to surface first kinda takes away the point of a sub. A fleet can move from Black to Cons in one turn. Therefore, a sub can move from Black to Cons in one turn. Then, after a successful move, has to surface. No?

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 09 Aug 2020, 15:54

Now's the time to fix the rules. But whatever they are. You make 'em, and I'll beat ya by them. Play ball!

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Woolgie » 09 Aug 2020, 17:09

I think this is best solved with a new rule.

A submarine may be underwater in Denmark and Constantinople. It may both dive and surface in these locations or pass through between adjacent seas whilst staying underwater. This is for the purpose of allowing transit between seas. The sub must surface in order to take ownership of the territory if it is in other hands.
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 10 Aug 2020, 00:49

OK......play ball!

;)

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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Pops2112 » 10 Aug 2020, 08:21

The revised special rule for Denmark and Constantinople works for me too. Just fingers crossed now we pick up the additional players needed to give this a go ...
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Re: Submarines! (3 of 7)

Postby Custer » 10 Aug 2020, 16:09

They'll come around......

I'll lure them in with some cheese.........

:twisted:

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