1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

6-player variant set in the Napoleonic era created and GM'd by NoPunIn10Did

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1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 17 Mar 2020, 03:22

1812 Overture: 1816 Game Over
1812 Overture [PbF 5]


Image
Game Over
Hosted on imgur: 1816.08: Game Over

Prior to Autumn 1816, the remaining players unanimously agreed to a DIAS.

Here are the results of the ranked draw:
  1. DipideeDawg, playing @Austria & Shawnee (13 SCs)
  2. Strategus, playing @France & Rhine (11 SCs)
  3. ColonelApricot, playing @Denmark & New Spain (8 SCs)
  4. CommanderTomalak, playing @Russia & Cherokee , (7 SCs)
  5. WakaKafkaFlame, playing @USA , (6 SCs)
  6. asudevil, playing @Britain & Canada (Elim. 1815)
Congratulations to everyone, particularly to DipideeDawg for topping the board. Thanks to everyone who played!

Players may feel free to post AARs here or in Discord. I will eventually transcribe the AAR-oriented Discord chat to this thread.

Player List
  • BR - Britain (Bright Red): asudevil
  • CA - Canada (Pink): asudevil
  • FR - France (Navy Blue): Strategus
  • RH - Rhine Confed. (Sky Blue): Strategus
  • RE - Republicans (Brown): WakaKafkaFlame
  • FE - Federalists (Tan): WakaKafkaFlame
  • AU - Austria (Yellow): DipideeDawg
  • SH - Shawnee (Black): DipideeDawg
  • DN - Denmark-Norway (Dark Red): ColonelApricot
  • NS - New Spain (Green): ColonelApricot
  • RU - Russia (Purple): CommanderTomalak
  • CH - Cherokee (Orange): CommanderTomalak
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Re: 1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 30 Mar 2020, 20:52

Discord After-Action Report Transcript
Part 1

NoPunIn10Did 03/16/2020
Congratulations to all @Players . The game has ended in a draw with @DipideeDawg (georgeatkins) as board-topper.

Strategus 03/16/2020
Well done

ColonelApricotDanishSpanish 03/16/2020
Congratulations to @DipideeDawg (georgeatkins) on topping. Thanks to all for a nice game. Also best wishes to all and their families in the current crisis.
Looking forward to the post-game chat (if anyone can get a word in edgewise around bloody @WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) - maybe that would be @Walshie )
And 3 cheers to the ref @NoPunIn10Did of course.

NoPunIn10Did 03/16/2020
Thanks Colonel
I think this might be the first draw where a stalemate line made a major impact.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
:smile:

NoPunIn10Did 03/16/2020
Most draws prior to this were done for time, attrition, or a “Mexican Standoff”

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
Congrats @DipideeDawg (georgeatkins)
Second all that @ColonelApricotDanishSpanish has to say
I (and many of us) have been completely spoiled by @NoPunIn10Did 's GMing

NoPunIn10Did 03/16/2020
(The scene from The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly)
I do what I can

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
And hey! I didn't throw or nothin'!
hehe
That was all @Commander Tomalak , by the way.

Walshie 03/16/2020
Yeah, Colonel. Looking forward to Ryan's post game comments as much as I do Eddie Jones's press conferences.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
He talked with me at one point and pointed out how disappointed he was that every time he played with me, I tried to throw (we've played together only twice).
And I said, "You know what... he's right!"
Had it been completely up to me, I'd have loved to see @ColonelApricotDanishSpanish in loser's row with me.
:smile:
https://giphy.com/gifs/65kQC6Mg4XIsw

@NoPunIn10Did , an interesting "lessons learned" from that stalemate line this match for the native american tribes.
Without a partner in crime, it is pretty easy for the Native American tribes to get shut out of a solo.
Easier still if New Spain keeps Mexico.

Walshie 03/16/2020
Easier still if...
Stall the ball there Alex, there's still another game being played...

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
Nah @Walshie , you are toast in that game.
Good as gone.
Maybe if you had put up more of a fight...

Walshie 03/16/2020
Tis not me I'm worried about.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/16/2020
Like I did in this game, cowering in a turtle formation.

Walshie 03/16/2020
Nothing wrong with the ol' turtle formation.
Kept many a wannabe soloist honest over the years.

ColonelApricotDanishSpanish 03/16/2020
A snapping turtle actually.
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Re: 1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 30 Mar 2020, 20:52

Discord After-Action Report Transcript
Part 2

DipideeDawg (georgeatkins) 03/17/2020

Well, first of all thanks to NoPun for inviting me into the game and for his usual standard of adjudication and oversight...as well as his patience with my laziness and carelessness. Next, my real appreciation to all of the slugs, er, fellow players for a very interesting and challenging game. My first time on this variant, as you could probably tell by my fumblings in Europe. I was accused of stabbing everybody, which was not true, but that might have been what it looked like. By nature, I am not a stabaholic. First off, a stab is what you do to an ally, not an opponent, right? Anyway, I couldn't find a solid base of cooperation in Europe, which might have been due to not finding the right approach for Austria. Stuck between two larger powers (France/Rhine States and Russia), it seemed that, no matter which way I went, the other side would roll over me, or both would. So, I might have unconsciously led to my own demise over there. Unfortunate, as Waka had suggested a dual win, which I was thinking from the start as one of the interesting features, along with trying to handle two powers. As it turned out, my failing in Europe doomed Waka's Grand Plan and forced me to move against him before he could regroup. But New Spain coincidentally pushed it along by stabbing a 3-way plan we had just put together. Perhaps he saw it was temporary. The rest is easy enough to see. I simply ran out of time. I probably should have stabbed Waka a turn or two ago, but New Spain was too strong at that point and would have moved against me in alliance with Waka. In the end, I knew I could get to 17 centers with correct play.

But, as Waka also pointed out, getting that last center (having been annihilated in Europe) was not going to happen. And France was making moves of his own by that time, with nobody doing much about it, since I was still the one to stop. So, all of my feeble negotiations late in the game mattered not a tit. And Waka was not going to let me walk to victory, in spite of his threats to the rest of you. No matter what I did, he could stop me, and did. In the end, I think the victory belongs to those of you who successfully erected the stalemate in the North East. Either that, or I was just too slow.

Again, thank you, NoPun, for another innovative variant, professional design, and top-notch adjudication.
I sure can suck up, huh?
Do any of these points get into PD?

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
Oh man, yeah, this game has been a load of fun for me as well.
I admit I haven't done the best jobs - the very flexible loyalties of the first few turns ended up putting me in a position where I didn't have a chance at winning. I find it ironic that the one person I'd immediately (at the start) decided to settle in on an alliance with, Austria, was the only person I was fighting by the end of the game!
I didn't want to roll over Austria, but I could see how that would be a possibility. I'd hoped to support Austrian movements through France. Unfortunately, my plans stalled quickly (Strategus is very good at that) and then I was threatened by Denmark and Austria, and I had no friendly neighbours.
I admit, I couldn't help the stalemate. I spent the entire time in the alliance carefully planning exactly what to do when it turned on me.
Part of the reason I was rushing towards a draw, I suppose, is that I knew I was the dead weight, the odd man out.
I knew that if France/Denmark chose to stay loyal to each other over me - and they almost certainly would - I'd be toast
The game would also have probably ended in a French solo had that happened, so I was starting to get cautious about France, hoping we could do something about it. I wasn't going to let Austria come back and doom the game, but I knew we had to be careful about French expansion.
Did the best I could, came in a decent place. Happy with my score. It's better than I thought I would have three years ago or so. (In game years, that is.)

DipideeDawg (georgeatkins) 03/17/2020
I do want to add that I thought everybody would appreciate the fact that Waka came in next-to-last. :grin: I hope that makes up a bit for my play in Europe. As for a Fr/Den solo, had Austria been able to retain one center, that would not have happened. In any event, I don't see how Denmark would let France solo. And that's why Denmark helped US secure the North East and prevented a Shawnee solo. I enjoyed the give-and-take with you all.
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Re: 1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 30 Mar 2020, 20:54

Part 3

Walshie 03/17/2020
Obviously can't speak for everybody, but personally do appreciate the fact that Waka came in next-to-last, George. And without pre-empting the other 1812 game, imagine how much better we Black Kettles could have performed in TTT way back when if we weren't endlessly hamstrung by Ryan?

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
:grin:

NoPunIn10Did 03/17/2020
Speaking of the TTT, I am running the Tournament Through Time next year (albeit with a much different structure).
We're hosting a few preliminary games on the TTT server in 2020, partly to build the community and potential playerbase for 2021.
Many of you are already on that server. For those who aren't:
https://discord.gg/FjQgYzZ

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
Ah yes - one last thing. I am glad to hear that I did in fact have an impact, at least in stopping Waka from throwing!

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
While true that the once mighty United States fell to second to last place (special thanks to ASU for keeping me from basement bottom), I feel a certain sense of Dr. Frankensteinian pride that I was able to save the Shawnee from the dustbin of 1812 history, and transform them into a world power.

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
Yeah, poor Asu. That was brutal.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
He knew what he was getting in to when he stabbed me...

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
I'm happy with my fourth.
It's a good point. If someone stabs you, you repay your threat or they become useful.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
Had he stayed on script, we would have run the table I think.

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
Perhaps. But he wanted to kill you from 01.
I mean, 1811.

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
IMO, the combined forces of Canada and the US have unique leverage on the map.
Yeah. He was mistaken.
He fed me a whole list of lies pre game. And then he seemed surprised when I did the same with him.

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
Well. Sometimes I guess people love to feel like they are on top of the world, mastering the game and holding it in their hands, regardless of whether or not that is actually the case. He knew he was betraying you, but he didn't know you were betraying him. It's a difference in expectation, one that is entirely self centred morally, sure, but a difference in expectation

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
I wanted to work with him so that I couldn't be accused of metagaming, actually.
Which is in its own way... metagaming.

Commander Tomalak 03/17/2020
No matter what, it is always metagaming

WakaKafkaFlame (NITRO) 03/17/2020
I did try to work with him, though. And hopefully, if nothing else, I can't be accused of specifically targeting any one player for past game behavior.
Which ironically I think is why he came after me.
:*(
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Re: 1812 Overture [PbF 5]: GAME OVER and AARs

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 30 Mar 2020, 20:54

Part 4

ColonelApricotDanishSpanish 03/17/2020

My recap as follows:

In year 1 Brit-Canada orchestrated a split powers alliance to take out USA and France. The four split powers signed up for this, as you do.

This alliance did not outlast the thorough smashing of Canada by USA, after all who wants to stay on a sinking ship?

For myself I viewed Denmark as being probably the weakest power and any kind of survival would be a win. In contrast I had much greater expectations for NS. Well, wrong on both counts.

DENMARK

Waka said early on that an alliance of Denmark and Russia is logical and I agree with that. However that became problematic when Russia broke agreements and that meant France was Denmark's only realistic ally. Although Strategus was very reticent he was patient and by being cautious we gradually built a working relationship. Frankly I found him to be the most effective negotiator in the game. My conclusion is that in a long game France can be a winning power but it requires a lot of patience.

A key turning point was when British fleets were confronting USA in the Atlantic. Was it better to support those fleets as a counter to USA's fleets (as Asu petitioned) or to replace them with Danish and French fleets? In the end the simpler view prevailed allowing Denmark and France to establish a coordinated Atlantic frontline.

NEW SPAIN

NS got off to a good start, but there was probably a key error after taking Ozarks. At that point an alliance with Shawnee seemed very feasible, dividing NA. Shawnee could choose a naval ally, either USA or NS so I was waka's rival suitor for Shawnee's favour. I was willing to work with Cherokee but when the Commander seemed to prefer working with Waka and combined with bad behaviour by Russia I ruled out working with him for the moment anyway.

I believe if I had stabbed Shawnee by taking Kentucky then waka would have allied with me to take out Shawnee (knowing his admiration for Darwinian behaviour).

When USA built only fleets and the obvious DMZ was established between Shawnee and USA the Shawnee-USA alliance seemed completely cemented. I had to choose between being whittled into the corner or trying to break that alliance. By stabbing USA (twice) I aimed to effectively king-make Shawnee and force the board to unite against the Shawnee solo. That is, as long as USA did not make good on his threat to throw to Shawnee.

Full credit to waka for resisting that temptation, especially when I took out Charleston. However I felt I could rely on his famous "never say die" fighting spirit. :sweat_smile:

One of these days he really WILL throw and then we'll know that senility will definitely have set in.

After that it was about the stalemate line and France's willingness to not try to solo.

I would have like to get USA fleets into those Northern lakes. Sorry that we could not quite manage it. It would have been a fascinating contest, Waka being a master of fleets (:doffs hat:). Probably a bit like Baltic (tournament of swords).

GAME DESIGN

Don't think I'd make any changes, except the double win thing. That to me is an esoteric vestige. The chance of an exact double win situation seems extremely remote and only possible through deliberate manipulation as was the case the only time it happened. I suggest either relax the requirements or drop it altogether.

At one stage a unit symbol in Koenigsberg confused me about boundaries. It was always tricky to figure out what was happening in Europe.

As a fan of Versailles I wonder if this map could operate in the same way i.e. secret two-power alliances. That would be fun I think. Luck would play a greater role, but the diplomacy would be seriously devious. It would be especially cool to include a game with secret alliances in a future TTT which the last one lacked)

Another possibility is an escalation approach.



This map would be a great addition to PlayDip I reckon.
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