Feudal diplomacy, part 2

15-player variant starting in 1100 with very different powers rules. Created by his_flyness. GM: his_flyness. Game ended with no resolution.

Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby his_flyness » 14 Sep 2009, 06:16

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions, etc.

I've now formalized rules for the variant, and made a map!

Map without starting units, and map with starting units are attached. Rules are at the end of the post. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, or if you would like to play and test round and see how it goes!



Feudal Diplomacy:

Feudal diplomacy is set in Western Europe shortly after 1100 AD.

Victory:
Victory is attained by controlling the Papacy and a major kingdom (England, France, the Holy Roman Empire (HRE)), or by controlling all three major kingdoms.

Units and turns:
There are both fleet and army units. Both cost 1 supply, but fleets have only half the strength of armies.

Turns operate as in normal diplomacy, with spring, fall, retreat, movement, and build phases.

Builds may be placed in any controlled supply center (SC). As each unit is paired to a specific supply center (this will be explained later), if a supply center is lost, the unit associated with that supply center must be destroyed.

Units are designated by a three part code – the first part indicates whether it is an army or fleet, the second part indicates the player who controls it, and the third part indicates its home SC.


The Board:
The board encompasses Britain, France, Germany, and Italy.

There are five kingdoms: England, France, the HRE, Scotland, Naples, plus some independent territories (the Papal States, Orkney and Caithness, Dublin, Venice) which are not part of any kingdom. All kingdoms have some supply centers controlled by the king, and may have unoccupied supply centers and centers controlled by lords, who are substantially independent of the king in their actions.

The king of a country is the player which controls the capitol SC. The capitol supply centers are: England – London, France – Paris, Scotland – Edinburgh, Naples – Naples.

In the case of the HRE, the initial king is Bavaria, but a new king can be chosen by election as described below.

The Players:
There are three groups of players: lords, kings, and the Pope:

Kings:
Kings have direct control over a limited number of units, and also many have some number of lords who are (at least theoretically) under their command. A king may declare one or multiple of his lords a “traitor” as an additional, special, move each turn. Doing so reduces the strength of those lords’ units to ¾ of their usual strength the following turn. This condition lasts until the lord is eliminated or the king issues a new order, restoring that lord to full standing, again effective starting the following turn.

Any player can become the king of any country by seizing that country’s capitol supply center, or by election in the case of the HRE. If a king is replaced, any player who has been labeled a traitor by that king remains in a weakened state unless and until the new king chooses to restore him to normal status.

In the case of the HRE, the first king is the Bavarian player. However, every 2 years thereafter (during the build phase) there is an election to determine a new king. All players who control supply centers within the HRE are entitled to vote, which is weighted by the number of supply centers which they control within the HRE. Any player (even if they hold no territory within the HRE) is eligible to be elected king of the HRE.

Lords:

Lords can become kings as explained above. Although they may be the vassal of one king, that does not prevent them from negotiating with whomever they choose on the board and moving their units as they see fit, as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences of their king’s displeasure if they ignore or attack him!

Some lords serve multiple kings! Both Burgundy and Flanders start out in this position, but others may find themselves in the same circumstance depending on game play. In their cases, being labeled a traitor only affects the units supplied from that king’s country. So, if the king of the HRE labeled Flanders a traitor, it would affect the units supplied by Lower Lorraine and Frisia (Fri), but not the unit supplied by Flanders (Fla).


The Pope:

The Papal States are not within any other kingdom. Additionally, the pope can excommunicate any player on the board, which has the same effect as being declared a traitor. The vassals of an excommunicated player feel the same effects as the player himself, so excommunicating the king of England affects not only his units but those of York and Gloucester. Only 1 player may be excommunicated at any time. Excommunication and lifting of excommunication are issued the same way kings declare lords traitors, and take effect the following turn. The Pope may lift one players’ excommunication and excommunicate another the same turn if he chooses.


Country boundaries:

Country boundaries are fixed. Capture of an English supply center by France, for example, does not make that supply center a part of France. While the French player who captures it will gain control and a new build, the supply center will be held as a fief of the English king, and is subject to being labeled a traitor just like the rest of his lords.

Supply:

The supply center a unit is supplied from affects which declarations of treason affect it. At the start of the game, all units are supplied by the center they start on. Any time a unit takes a supply center, it is judged to be supplied by the center it has just captured. The new build will be placed (and supplied by) the center whose unit just captured the new SC. In the event that that SC is currently occupied, the owner may choose to supply the occupying unit from that SC and build in the supply center which formerly supplied the occupying unit.

Capturing supply centers and “self” dislodgement:

No unit will dislodge units controlled by another player from the same country unless specifically ordered to do so. So, if Anjou attempted to force the French king out of Paris, A Blo – Par, A Nor S A Blo – Par doesn’t do the trick. Instead, the player should order A Blo – Par (dislodge), A Nor S A Blo – Par. Similarly, units won’t capture supply centers held by other players in the same country unless specifically ordered to do so. If Anjou wanted to then go on to capture Paris, he should order A Blo – Par (dislodge) (capture), A Nor S A Blo – Par.

Such orders are not needed when attacking other countries. But be careful – once you’ve already captured a few foreign SCs, you units will be supplied from that country and won’t dislodge the no-longer-foreign enemy units unless ordered to do so!
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby his_flyness » 14 Sep 2009, 06:19

Hmm... attaching the map didn't work because I used the wrong format.
Attachments
map_with_units.JPG
map_with_units.JPG (174.85 KiB) Viewed 2020 times
map_without_units.JPG
map_without_units.JPG (166.53 KiB) Viewed 2022 times
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby DOI » 14 Sep 2009, 07:52

Looks like a good kind of madness. Will there be a visible indicator that a unit is weakened by traitor status? Perhaps black text? Also, can the pope lift more than one excommunication at a time? Are the pope's excommunications and the king's declarations separate? I'm imagining a situation where the pope has excommunicated someone. Can the king then reinstate their good standing, or can only the pope do that?
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby Aeschines » 14 Sep 2009, 16:08

2-3 support questions:
If a fleet supports an army to hold does that army have a hold strength of 1.5?
If an excommunicated army supports a normal army to hold is that a hold strength of 1.75?
If an excommunicated fleet supports and excommunicated fleet to hold is that a hold strength of 6/8th?
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby raytheruler » 14 Sep 2009, 20:37

I would be interested in playing, but i think the more balanced Standard Diplomacy map would suit it better. Maybe it could be modified instead of this new contraption of yours.
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby raytheruler » 14 Sep 2009, 20:38

Also, I think you should make an odd number of kingdoms by adding austria hungary.
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby Aeschines » 14 Sep 2009, 21:27

Personally, i like your new map and i'm very excited to try it. You should definitly put me down as a player.
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby nickjb3 » 14 Sep 2009, 23:56

I too am in favor of the old map, but I would be willing to give this one a try. Put me down as a player, preferably a lord.

EDIT: This already has a lot of rules, but I can't resist suggesting another one.

The Lord of Edinburgh (player 1) owns two supply centers, Edinburgh and Norway. The king of England (player 2) declares him a traitor and then subsequently captures Edinburgh, leaving player 1 with only Norway. At this point I think that player 1 should be able to renounce his loyalty to the king of England (player 2) and give it to someone else, say the king of Russia. Now player one is the Lord of Norway not Edinburgh and a Russian vassal.

This edit was from the old thread when we were still planning on using the old board, but I think the concept still applies.
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby Aeschines » 15 Sep 2009, 01:15

nickjb3 wrote:I too am in favor of the old map, but I would be willing to give this one a try. Put me down as a player, preferably a lord.

EDIT: This already has a lot of rules, but I can't resist suggesting another one.

The Lord of Edinburgh (player 1) owns two supply centers, Edinburgh and Norway. The king of England (player 2) declares him a traitor and then subsequently captures Edinburgh, leaving player 1 with only Norway. At this point I think that player 1 should be able to renounce his loyalty to the king of England (player 2) and give it to someone else, say the king of Russia. Now player one is the Lord of Norway not Edinburgh and a Russian vassal.

This edit was from the old thread when we were still planning on using the old board, but I think the concept still applies.


I don't think this rule is necessary because with the rule a
all country borders remain the same
that basically applies anyways. If Holstein acquires York then the unit supported by York is a unit kinged by the king of England and so isn't affected by being declared a traitor by the king of HRE.
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Re: Feudal diplomacy, part 2

Postby feldspar » 15 Sep 2009, 02:40

First things first:
lordelindel wrote:If an excommunicated fleet supports and excommunicated fleet to hold is that a hold strength of 6/8th?

Yes, but you need to reduce the fraction to 3/4, or turn it into a decimal since that seems to be what you're using. Now on to something that holds any importance:

I'm a bit confused. Let's say Country A has a lord (Lord 1) who gains a supply center in Country B. So he is now technically a lord of Country B, right? What reason would the king of country B have to not use his traitor power on Lord 1? Lord 1 just stole his supply center! Could somebody explain this to me?
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