Fedudal diplomacy rules

15-player variant starting in 1100 with very different powers rules. Created by his_flyness. GM: his_flyness. Game ended with no resolution.

Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby his_flyness » 22 Jan 2010, 01:23

That's right -- there will be a delay with the builds.

The only situation where I could see some argument (as the rules are vauge) is if you take a SC with a unit which is destroyed because its home SC has been lost.
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Aeschines » 22 Jan 2010, 07:31

his_flyness wrote:That's right -- there will be a delay with the builds.

The only situation where I could see some argument (as the rules are vauge) is if you take a SC with a unit which is destroyed because its home SC has been lost.


By the by, if there is a second game of this that would be my #1 rule revision. It makes it quite challenging for a small country (say Verona) to get any bigger before getting quashed.... Maybe I shouldn't have said anything... Uh...

NEWS wrote:Feudal NEWS report!: Lots of uh... spiders and things have been seen hanging around Venice and Verona. They might bite and cause allergic reactions: STAY AWAY!
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Pokerface » 22 Jan 2010, 22:23

If a person loses their centre now in the fall turn, will it be destroyed or does the unit still exist until the other country builds it's unit
Because of Duc everyone just lost THE GAME!!!!

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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby feldspar » 23 Jan 2010, 04:31

NEWS wrote:Feudal NEWS report!: Lots of uh... spiders and things have been seen hanging around Venice and Verona. They might bite and cause allergic reactions: STAY AWAY!

OH ****! I vote that we should give the Duke of Venice the throne of the HRE and elect him the pope in order to give him the power necessary to remedy this situation. Only immediate action can curb this spider bite epidemic.
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Kian » 23 Jan 2010, 18:43

I would like to hear peoples views on this...
the following comes from a PM I sent...
Being a keen Medieval History buff for a good few decades I think some of us might be a bit unclear on how feudal fealty and loyalty works...

I control 3 starting areas:
The Duchy of Burgundy - held as a fiefdom of France.
The County of Burgundy (Cob) - held as a fiefdom of HRE
The kingdom of Arles - held as a fiefdom of HRE.

As King of HRE you should expect (and got :P ) loyal obedience from Arles and the County of Burgundy. You would fully understand and support that for the Duchy of Burgundy I would have (for that territory only) to be loyal and obedient to the King of France (or naughty and disloyal for that matter).

The two are completely separate. Even the King of England holds (at this time in history) his French lands as fiefdoms of the Kingdom of France.

To be seen to punish the Count of Burgundy and the king of Arles for actions taken by the Duke of Burgundy would be seen by all Lords, the King and the Pope to be unjust and against the nature of the feudal world, EVEN IF THEY ARE ALL THE SAME MAN.

:D


Now, I am willing to abide with a majority or with HsFlyness´ call on this - but am I right in this or not.

I completely understand that the world is not a fair place and any King is free to declare any vassal a traitor. No problem there, I just think its important that people see it in the full context, as it would have been seen in those times.

By the way - I am having great fun with Feudal - Well done Flyness so far so brilliant.
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby foxbane » 24 Jan 2010, 04:02

I am not sure I follow, if HRE (or France) declares you a traitor then only the units that are formed from their kingdom are affected.
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Kian » 24 Jan 2010, 15:51

Sorry I didn´t make clear the main point. Ignore my own particular case - the general point I am exploring is that any King should only be justified in declaring a vassal a traitor based on the behaviour of forces which are his vassals.

If he does it for no reason, or for reasons associated with a force belonging to a Lord where that particular force is actually a vassal of another country it would be seen to be abitrary and unjust.

In this Feudal society you really can have masters - Burgundy for example owes fealty to France for the Duchy of Burgundy which is, always has been and in the rules of this game always will be a territory of France.

Burgundy also owe fealty to the HRE for the County of Burgundy and for the little kingdom of Arles.

You cannot justifiably call the Duke of the Duchy Burgundy a traitor to the HRE because he has declared the Duchy of Burgundy is loyal to France...

(my head hurts :D)

K
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Pokerface » 24 Jan 2010, 16:43

I think I understand what you are getting at.

Do you mean that you think that a king should only be able to declare a person a traitor if they have actually evidence?
Also, like in your case, you have declared your allegiance to France so HRE has said you are a traitor.

I agree and disagree with it. In feudal times Kings did declare people traitors even when they weren't. It would also be hard to actually get evidence if you are a king. When a king you do not want to declare a person a traitor unless you have too. Once you declare a lord a traitor you have made an enemy, on top of that, other lords will see what the king did and decide to all go for the crown and poof there goes the king. It makes kings super powerful but weren't they like that in feudal times. I do not see what the problems is with HRE declaring you a traitor since they know if a fight comes out between France and HRE you will support France, therefore you are not ally. It does make it hard for people in the middle but it is just adds another dimension to the game.

I really love the game, you should send it to a publisher :)
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby Kian » 24 Jan 2010, 17:25

Don´t worry folks - I will stop banging on about it after this post, honest... :D

First I completely agree that a King can and sometimes (not often) in this period declare anyone a traitor for any or no reason whatsoever. No probs there.

There are really only 2 points I am trying to make.

1
If a Lord has territories in 2 kingdoms he has a duty of loyalty to two monarchs.

In my case I start of controlling three territories and have titles.
Duke of the Duchy of Burgundy (Dob)
Count of the County of Burgandy (Cob)
King of Arles (Arl)

I have a duty as the Duke of Burgundy to be a loyal vassal of the King of France for the Duchy of Burgundy.

I have a duty to be loyal to the Holy Roman Emperor for the County of Burgundy and as the King of Arles for Arles.

Of course the King of France CAN proclaim ¨The King of Arles has declared that the Kingdom of Arles (an HRE territory) is loyal to the HRE therefore I declare the Duke and Duchy of Burgundy traitors¨

BUT every other King of Europe, all of the Lords of Europe (especially the French Lords) and the pope would consider such an action to be dodgy in the extreme.

I am only banging on about this because at this time in history loyalty was very much reciprocal - it placed duties and responsibilities both on the giver and receiver and these duties and responsibilities were taken very seriously. Also as the game progresses this issue will affect more and more players.

Anyhow, its all making for a fab game :D so I will shut up now. ... but don¨t say I did not warn you ;)

K
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Re: Fedudal diplomacy rules

Postby rayhond » 13 Feb 2010, 12:15

What would happen if there were a tie for HRE elections?
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