PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

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PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby TTBen » 08 Mar 2020, 15:49

ENGLAND--Cesspit
FRANCE--V--(SOLO WIN)
ITALY--Martz
GERMANY--StarkAdder
AUSTRIA--MasterGR
TURKEY--Mr Aedron
RUSSIA--Pootleflump
PbF GM
— African Diplomacy 5 -Finished
-- Warring States2 Finished

What next?

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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby V » 09 Mar 2020, 00:30

Hi All,

Please don’t stand on ceremony regarding AAR contributions. I’m no good at them, so won’t be writing an account from 1901 onwards. In truth the eastern part of the game was more interesting than the western anyway.
I’ll limit my contribution to addressing specific questions, if any arise & I’m able to answer them. Many thanks to all for a well played contest however,

Best Regards V
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby Groo » 09 Mar 2020, 02:24

Glanced at the game for fun. Italy simply had to turn around in 07, what was he thinking?
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby MasterGR » 09 Mar 2020, 08:12

Groo wrote:Glanced at the game for fun. Italy simply had to turn around in 07, what was he thinking?


Groo, well said. As Austria, I tried REALLY hard to turn Italy around in this game and towards France, but she wouldn't budge. From my comms, she told me that she wouldn't turn around because was annoyed at Germany. I never understood it.

Here's my AAR, copied and modified from the Shoutbox of the game:

What a difficult game this was. One of the hardest I’ve played diplomacy-wise, and frankly also one of the least fun. Sure hoping the next one will be better! I’ll start by criticizing myself. I made tons of mistakes. The two greatest ones were not siding with turkey, and convincing France not to turn on Italy early on. Especially the latter. Turkey unfortunately as I’ve already told you your communication style didn’t inspire trust. If it wasn’t for that I’d had sided with you, it was the rational thing to do. I was afraid of a russian stab from the beginning, which is why I stabbed russia. Turns out I was correct based on Italy’s AAR. But in my mind I needed Italy in the fight against Russia, which is why I discouraged France from attacking Italy after the Piedmont move. Clearly a huge error as Italy then stabbed me.

Italy, indeed had you not stabbed me I would had stabbed you the following year. So you were correct to stab me when you did. What I still don't understand is why you never turned around though. The game got to a point where I wasn’t dangerous to you anymore, your ally Russia was completely irrelevant to the big picture of the board (France getting too big), and you needed to turn on France. You completely disregarded in my mind the big picture. I even let you have Greece hoping you’d use that build to turn west but you didn’t. I think to some extent you underestimated my staying power, and for some weird reason you also thought that Germany, while being attacked by an FI juggernaut, would help you eliminate me. I still don’t understand this either. And finally, you thought that I would die quietly while you’d be part of a FIR. So to conclude, you and I had completely different readings of the board. No hard feelings though, you were a gentleman (woman?) and I respect your playing style. I just struggle to understand your big picture decisions, ironically other than when you stabbed me.

Germany, as I’ve already mentioned that turn where you took Warsaw from me and moved to Ruhr was a turning point. I still wonder how the game would had been different had you not done those two moves. Based on France's message, the FGA we were originally planning would had lasted and I'm sure it would had also prevailed. That particular turn was even more a disaster for me, because had you not supported me into Warsaw I would had been able to defend against the Italian stab. Otherwise big picture I think you did the right things. If it wasn’t for Russia moving to Moscow towards the end and for Italy maintaining pressure on me we would had formed a stalemate against France. Finally, I really enjoyed your humorous communication style.

France, great game overall both diplomatically and tactically. You took great advantage of the chaos and animosity in the east and somehow convinced Italy to keep moving East. Russia had something to do with that as well.

Russia, as Germany wrote I hope I won’t play with you again. You're really a unique case in so many ways, that I’m not going to go over them all as it will sound personal, and it isn't since I've never played with you before. Complete disregard of the big picture and only focused on taking out people for vengeance. Despite repeated efforts from Germany and I to work together after our initial stab on you, your single focus was to take us out, and not to win. Your lack of manners (namecalling towards me) was also not helpful. I'll give you that you are a master manipulator though, you managed to diplomatically turn very difficult situations to your advantage, both with Germany and with Italy. Well played there.

Overall, I learned some good lessons from this game and I certainly enjoyed playing with the cordial ones of the board.
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby StarkAdder » 09 Mar 2020, 12:28

Here's my AAR, also copied from the postgame Shout Box and with a few edits....

Congratulations to France (V), for a smooth performance from start to finish. It was a pleasure to be his ally initially, and I respect his communications style and tactical decision-making throughout this game.

Austria (MasterGR), no truer ally and communicator could be imagined. This game had many downs and just a few ups, but Austria was part of all of the latter. He kept in touch, debated every move option, and stuck with me all game. Under the influence of Russia and too much beer one night, I made the fatal last-minute decision that probably cost me the game as well as costing Austria a good shot. I had been tipped off by Russia that an Italian stab was coming, and I grabbed an empty Warsaw. This took Austria from being one of the stronger powers on the map to one of the most threatened. To his credit, he played on and fought fiercely, and forgave me quickly so I rejoined my alliance with him. Alas, by the time I had also pissed off my other major ally, France, by re positioning an army from Holland to Ruhr (honestly, it was to get that unit to the eastern front where I needed it, but it gave France the only excuse he needed to break our alliance and crush me slowly like a big blue python). Italy also never forgave me for what he considered an inexplicable reversal of stabbing Austria and then supporting him, but I regretted my stab quickly when I saw that Russia was just using me as a proxy to crush Austria, and I needed A's help to achieve my real goal of eliminating Russia. Even that failed, as Russia managing to persuade Turkey, then Italy, then Austria (briefly) and the England to take her offers of help, only to stab each of them soon after -- and me, repeatedly, because like Charlie Brown, I grew wary of the Russian Lucy holding out a football for me to kick, but then others persuaded me it would be safe this time. It never was.

I regret in this game that I did not try harder to be Italy's ally earlier on. Italy (Martz) finally joined with A and me to stop the French solo and to not trust Russia, but it was too little and too late. Italy showed with his endgame deeds and promises kept that I could have thrived with such a G/I partnership, and I apologize for not making it easier for Italy to achieve his goals.

Turkey (Mr Aedron) and Britain (Cesspit) exited the game earlier and I had less to say with them than with the others, but their participation was admired by me while it lasted. Despite being the victims of strong coalitions against them, they never lost their cool or resorted to name-calling in this game (at least with me). Their noble acceptance of their fates showcases their honor.

Russia (Pootleflump), alas. I fell three times in this game for her honeyed words, only to be stabbed each time. I admit I also stabbed Russia a few times, but I took more stilettos than I gave. That is all part of the game, and Pootle is a skilled negotiator, tactician and manipulator. Unfortunately, this game was marred by some vulgar name-calling by her, repeated efforts to throw the game for pure revenge, and an overall tone of deception and deceit (sharing of other people's private messages to her, some perhaps altered or miscast to sow dissent) that made it unfair to some powers and uncomfortable to me on several occasions.
If I know in advance that she is signed up for the same PlayDip game as me, I will drop out. I do not want to experience her style of play again.
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby Pootleflump » 12 Mar 2020, 14:15

StarkAdder, old friend. I think the dementia has finally taken hold. The game is over. The sole AG strategy of KILL RUSSIA, NEVER MIND FRANCE lost you the game. Have a cup of tea, a pancake, move on to the next one.

Groo wrote:Glanced at the game for fun. Italy simply had to turn around in 07, what was he thinking?


Was never even mentioned, Groofy. In any of the PP or AAR. All that mattered was.... (wait for it).... KILL RUSSIA, NEVER MIND FRANCE.

Several extremely odd moments.

1. It was blindingly obvious France was about to stab Germany just before he did. But no fear... Germany got 3 builds just before the stab. He can build fleets and defend himself, contain France even, right? No. He built 3 armies to send East to KILL RUSSIA, NEVER MIND FRANCE. Then he walked out of all his home centres and Scandi, and sent everything East. Errr....because that's sensible game play.....

2. The 'olive branch' AG gave to Russia was conditional on Russia attacking Italy. Now.. what would that have achieved? Yup. Russia's death (KILL RUSSIA, NEVER MIND FRANCE). Yaaay. Let me grab that thorny olive branch with both hands, lol.

3. Most ridiculously, AGI decided it was feasible to draw whittle a 4-centre Russia (who was sitting in Turkey with two southern fleets) out of a 5-way draw, to make it a 4-way draw, whilst France was sitting on 17 centres. *chuckles* Only a magic wand and a huge pile of mind altering drugs could have achieved that without France solo-ing. Sadly they had neither.

My main crime seemed to be not dying. Oh, and my 'honeyed words and stiletto stabs' (good to know sexism is still alive and well on Playdip).

The much talked about Pootle Potty Mouth. The disgusting obscenities and profanities that she dared to utter centred on 2 messages.

I called Austria a 'twat' for sending a dictatorial message detailing all the moves we had to make or he'd 'throw the game to France.'

I called Germany 'full of crap' for his adherence to the winning game-long strategy of.... KILL RUSSIA, NEVER MIND FRANCE. Readers can decide for themselves whether that's justified.

I don't think either of those are that obscene. And given some effort, I could probably have been a lot more potty-mouthed.... Plus weirdly, Austria seemed mightily pissed off when Russia did ACTUALLY throw the game to France. That's what he said he wanted, lol.

Yes, I made mistakes. Never build 2 fleets as Russia in 01, no matter how much the board tell you they hate Turkey and England and all want them dead. It leaves you wide open to a brutal AG stab. I didn't realise they'd made a pact to take full advantage of that at the beginning of the game..... based on...... me being Potty-Stiletto-Pootle, it seems. :o

And yes, should have trusted Italy when they said they were turning on Turkey and Austria simultaneously and jumped on that ship. But I was hanging by a thread and focused on survival. It would have been so easy for the pack animals to snuff me out.

Not sure the pack animal mentality and ridiculous draw whittling was justified. But hey, it's a game and I hold no grudges. After all, I got to choose who won.

MasterGR wrote:your ally Russia was completely irrelevant to the big picture of the board


Turns out I wasn't that irrelevant after all MasterGR, despite your best efforts.

Well done France!

P.s. Twat is such a great word. Twat. Twat. Twat. Twat. We should all twatting use it more.
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby Fatmo » 14 Mar 2020, 00:00

Pootleflump wrote:Yes, I made mistakes. Never build 2 fleets as Russia in 01, no matter how much the board tell you they hate Turkey and England and all want them dead. It leaves you wide open to a brutal AG stab. I didn't realise they'd made a pact to take full advantage of that at the beginning of the game


Whoa, now that I think about it...this is exactly what happened to me the last game I played as Russia if I recall. Also lead to an eventual French solo.

But to be fair, I also actively wanted to experiment as Russia in order to try to take out both corners quickly. Lol didn't work and Turkey/England quickly became my best allies by far in that game. I still like the idea as a gamble knowing you're taking a big risk. I'm sure it can be pulled off!

Haven't really looked at this game too closely, and that game I mention was particularly insane.

But as soon as I saw this, made me think of that. Is Greggybear still around?

Sounds like this was an intense game and France did a great job of taking advantage of chaos. Well played.
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby dib » 15 Mar 2020, 11:13

Absolutely hilarious comments. Misogynists have a complicated relationship with their mothers.

Germany and Austria simply screwed things up trying to eliminate Russia. Germany moves especially weak and not driven by logic

Italy shouldn't have joined in but suspect was bullied.

This was 5 way draw all day long but for hubris
Well played V but the others need to smell the coffee
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby Fatmo » 16 Mar 2020, 04:16

Oh also.

V, didn't you used to go by another name? I could have sworn I remembered playing you at some point and then you changed your name later. Am I thinking of the right person, and if so, what was your name before?
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Re: PDL 2020 Division 1 Jan Game A AAR

Postby MasterGR » 16 Mar 2020, 04:17

dib wrote:Germany and Austria simply screwed things up trying to eliminate Russia. Germany moves especially weak and not driven by logic

Italy shouldn't have joined in but suspect was bullied.

This was 5 way draw all day long but for hubris
Well played V but the others need to smell the coffee


If you look at the game history you will notice that we (AG) actually let Russia alone and then she walked into Moscow breaking the stalemate that we had formed against France. But obviously you didn’t and just came to support your friend.

And yes, later on Germany and especially I pushed Italy to move on Russia, because Russia had lied to us so many times that Germany and I thought her 5-way message was yet another trap. When we saw that Russia had actually tried to hold the stalemate, we abandoned the attempt and again tried to form a stalemate including Russia. But then Russia didn't follow through and gave the game to France. So again, before making comments, please actually look at the game history. The conclusion is that there was so much animosity in the east between GA and R, that even a French solo couldn't unite us.

I stand by what I said though: there was a point where Russia had 2-3 units and was not relevant to holding the stalemate. It remains a mystery to me why Italy instead of working with AG at that point to take out Russia and stalemate France, decided to instead keep on pushing on me (Austria) and on supporting Russia. But even at that point, if there had been a suggestion for a 5-way we would had taken it. Instead, Russia moved to Moscow breaking the stalemate we had formed, and Italy supported France into Tyrolia if I recall. So blame it on us (AG) all you want, we're actually the only ones who made a serious effort to hold France back. Once again, please refer to the game history before making comments.
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