Pootleflump wrote:My preference when playing France or Turkey is to form a bond with the other. They make perfect end game allies.
Consequently at the very beginning, you were my first message sent and I told you clearly that I thought we should be friends with an eye to the end game.
Your response was what steered my subsequent choices. You didn't like my communication style. You made that quite clear and my feeling was that you would ally with anyone on the board rather than me.
That was your downfall in this game.
It is not personality politics to keep your options open and be charming to everyone at the beginning. It was you that steered the course of the game. When you alienate powers it's easy to manipulate that dynamic.
Pootle, admittedly this game was a little while ago and our conversations were not the part of the game I remember best. But I'll give it as I recall...
I can't remember your opening messages too well but I'm happy to believe you did say that. But from my point of view, in 1901, I'm hearing that kind of thing from everyone and as you indeed hint at, you're no doubt wooing others in a similar way too. So I have no reason to believe this is anything more than cheap talk. But as I recall, I responded positively in kind and we had cordial (or better) conversations for the first few years. Indeed at some point I remember receiving a message from you saying something like "Is it too soon to say I have a Turkish boyfriend?" After being admin-surrendered by nanook, I don't have the messages, but I'm sure you could confirm that - and I guess that was in 1903 or so? This points to the fact I was willing to play along at least at the start. Although I was a little wary of you - I actually found that line a bit creepy personally. I was also suspicious when you showed me a game in which you had turned down a solo to take a 2 way draw, presumably to establish a reputation for yourself as a carebear. As someone who really dislikes carebearism and would have also preferred the identities remain anonymous, this did annoy me a little. Although I'm sure it wasn't your intention to annoy and I try not to let feelings of being annoyed affect my gameplay too much anyway.
Then in what I'd guess to be around 1904 we had a bit of a bust up when out of nowhere you accused me of leaking messages or other intel. I never leaked any of your messages, and furthermore, anyone who has ever played with me and knows me will confirm that I don't leak. So I'm not sure where that accusation came from? From that point on, it is fair to say that relations between us weren't great and I accept much responsibility for that. I did respond quite strongly to your accusations of leaking and after that I generally put in my effort to talking to England and Germany rather than yourself. Also based on board position, I felt that England was my most natural ally, rather than yourself. But having said all of this, if you had been interested in an alliance, then at any point, that would have been very well-received. While you did rub me up the wrong way (as I probably did to you too), I wouldn't let this stand in the way of us allying if there was a deal to be done. Perhaps I should have not told you when you did things that I thought dishonest or annoyed me? Although I took the attitude that it's best to be honest there. Perhaps I should have done more to make it clear that I don't hold grudges and would still have been very willing to ally with you, but I'm not sure how much difference that would have made?
Also, at what point were you interested in a France/Turkey alliance? Because I didn't really see much signs of that.
1. Your opening choice of a western triple is certainly not what I'd like to see as Turkey - your units are positioned to attack me next after Italy.
2. Even in the first few years when we were getting on well, from what I remember about your messages, there wasn't much or any discussion of the board or specific plans - just pleasantries. (Although please correct me if I mis-remember).
But anyway, you also had Germany and England wrapped around your little finger so you didn't have any reason to ally with me when you could play the game just as you did and solo.
Pootleflump wrote:V didn't play badly. He is a brilliant tactician, a fab communicator and good company. It was a hugely successful western triple and taking that to the end was a reality for all three of us at one point.
That depends on your perspective. I'd say he played very well for the Western triple but not so well for Germany. From the point of going down the Western triple route - especially that Western triple route, I think defeat was always his most likely outcome. I'm sure the hope of French/English carebearism (which I expect you worked hard to enforce in his mind) would have given him the feeling of having a shot at a 3 way, but I think that's about the best you can say for his prognosis. Board-wise his position got worse pretty much every year.
As for "a fab communicator and good company", I did see glimpses of this. But I think it depends how V feels about you. If he likes you then sure. But if he doesn't, he can be a foul-mouthed bully as we've seen here.