PDL 2. Round 3 Game 1. AAR

[mhsmith0]

...
You are quite remarkable.

all that said I'm still curious about the thoughts of people who were in the game on the proceedings. Any of you guys want to pop in?

[duckling]

Complaining, remarking, questioning, whatever you wanna call it... all of these things are ironic coming from you in this context.

This is supposed to be a discussion on the game play. Stick to that, please.

Discussing who has the moral high ground to ask what kind of question is fucking way off topic, and just reduces to personal attacks.

[duckling]

I’m not big on AARs, but I’ll have a quick run-through of what the game looked like from my view.


From the start, I was hoping to cooperate with either G or E against the other.
Preferrably Germany against England, but Germany proved quite hard to talk to. We didn’t get along, and he had tech problems keeping him away from the game as well, making it hard to have a conversation.

So I went for a deal with England, which proved almost disastrous when he botched his convoy order.
At that point, I saw no real options for the future but to keep a good relationship with Italy and Russia, hoping to join one of them later.

Italy was a problem though, because it seemed clear to me that i’d be next on his target list.
Italy might’ve thought there was an EF alliance, but I was never after that. My cooperation with england was purely for defending against Germany, until Russia came closer and could chip in. I had no intentions of making it last, because I saw early that Russia would beat England, and letting Russia take over the British isles would mean the end of me (possibly a Russian solo, too).

Whether my nudging helped, I don’t know, but I tried increasing Austria’s worries over Italy. A fight between them would keep Italy busy and not in my hair. Austria decided to make a stand, and from there it seemed the Eastern situation just took its natural, easiest course.
Lucky me!

—-
I’ll get back to the end of the game later, gotta go to work now.

[mjparrett]

I quite agree with duckling. I think we have established in other threads that people have different views on the game. Happy days! Doesn't mean anyone is "correct" in their opinion, and acting like you are (and goading/mocking other people for disagreeing with you) is somewhat petty.

Happy for other people to join in on AARs they weren't part of, but keep to the topic. Otherwise you look somewhat silly

[lb1785]

Turkey here. A disaster of a game for me obviously, as it must be my quickest elimination since I started playing on this site.

Pre-S01, I reached out for the whole board early on, had a very positive response from Russia and quite soon figured out it was highly likely Russia was Shyvve (based on messaging style and the way he labels orders among other things). On the other hand, Italy's response to my first couple messages was quite generic, though he offered some encouraging thoughts about potential IT cooperation (though that's hard to pull off in general). I didn't know mhsmith0 from previous games, but I came to realise quite soon that Italy must have been one of the best players in the league. On top of all that, Austria didn't engage into the game for the first 3 or 4 days of S01, which made me choose him as target. I was ready to go Juggernaut full-style with Russia, and for the long haul at that, though we decided to hide it with some Smy-Arm move. Italy wasn't fooled...

After S01 both Russia and myself realised that Italy's Ven-Tri order was very likely to have been arranged between Austria and Italy, and that Italy was totally taking the lead in the AI alliance. From there on, it was either RT vs AI, or some sort of Triple. I tried to push for an RIT vs A solution, having in my mind that I would have to take on one of the survivors with the help of the other. Italy's answer was a no-go, given our respective board positions. The rest is written in order history: Russia joined an AIR triple against me, and stabbed me in S02. I couldn't recover from that despite the offers to act as vassal I made to Russia, and then Austria. I think I warned Austria he would be next to be attacked by IR, to no avail.

All in all, I don't think there was much I could have done to avoid that disaster, except maybe wait for Austria to really get into the game and see if I could work things out with him. To answer mhsmith0's question, I didn't coordinate with EF at any point in the game, as I was too focused trying to work out what was happening on my side of the board to contact the West.

I'd be interested in any comment or questions you might have about my game (which, again, I'm not proud of at all).

[mjparrett]

League table now also updated

[boldblade]

This is supposed to be a discussion on the game play. Stick to that, please.

Discussing who has the moral high ground to ask what kind of question is fucking way off topic, and just reduces to personal attacks.

I quite agree with duckling. I think we have established in other threads that people have different views on the game. Happy days! Doesn't mean anyone is "correct" in their opinion, and acting like you are (and goading/mocking other people for disagreeing with you) is somewhat petty.

Happy for other people to join in on AARs they weren't part of, but keep to the topic. Otherwise you look somewhat silly

The little back and forth between me and mhsmith was already quite over by the time you two chimed in but I appreciate the attention.

[MildWombat]

First full game in the league here. As I took over an one or two sc Russia last time and was gone within three phases. Interesting game. A little surprised by the outcome, but the more I think about it I guess it makes sense.

I set out to try and find a stable start. Austria always seems to be a boom or bust nation when I play, and one of the countries I am least comfortable with/don't have a favorite play style. The A/I/R offered seemed like a great opportunity to try and guarantee safe passage for at least 2 years.

What happened was perhaps predictable with my internal attitude. The game felt really bad from my point of view as I never felt any control over my situation. Was always being used as a proxy. Obviously that is my own fault for not exerting more influence/control. A large discussion topic in my conversations across the board and what turned into a bit of a narrative within the A/I/R was Trieste. The original plan was to swap it out earlier than it was, but this isn't what first made me feel helpless. The S01 board and the decision influenced by Russia to go for a much more conservative opening at my expense really frustrated me. The plan first discussed lightly S01 was for a Russian support of serbia into Bul, followed by the Italian in Ser with flexibility to sit in Trieste.

Russia was concerned about not getting a build, with the Northern stance of England and overall quiet coming from the German, he become nervous with Turkey's position and the potential to be denied and sit at 4. I argued in several messages, and would maintain, there was an almost zero chance of Russia not getting a build with the state of the board. With an opening in Bur coupled with the English opening, Germany would have no benefit in a weak Russia. That would only give England a Free SC. With an E/F showing, I did not see a bounce coming in Sweden even with a quiet Germany.

In the south, I had worked out a moveset with Turkey to have him go to greece to bounce a non-existent Italian move. I suspected Russia was playing bit coy with us and had not yet stabbed Turkey. He sent several long messages explaining his position and how it had evolved. Even if Turkey had turned into a hostile, the lack of any discussion from him on how to deal with Russia together seemed to indicate he wouldn't be attempting to deny the Russia. Unfortunately for my place in the game, I felt like I was yelling into an abyss.

The F01 results irritated me quite a bit. I knew I was in a horrible position and the complete lack of tempo I had would be my undoing. Probably much more frustrated the next two years over my own play. My risk return was way out of wack and I knew it.

Not sure there is much to add about the next two years, other than I should have controlled the narrative a bit more. When Trieste was handed back both Russia and Italy sent messages saying a thorn had been removed. I think I responded to both, but probably not expressing well enough, it was less not being in Trieste, but seeing myself more and more just serving at the whim of the R/I.

I remember entering the support order to Tyrolia and hearing Russia ask for the enth time to confirm our DMZ in Gal and feeling dread. Hindsight is 20/20, I should have picked up on the latter sign. I had expressed in 2 or so messages to Italy my perspective that Russia needed to be managed. Length of communication back from R & I was great throughout the game, so not hearing anything substantial on that topic should have also made me do something earlier.

Going back, Turkey in 03 I believe reached out to try his last time to sway me to go against him. I was pretty close to stabbing the Russian there. I had been thinking about it hard before the turn, but just didn't see a way where I would gain enough/hurt the Russia enough for it to be worth it. Since Italy had not really shown any hint of turning on Russia and Trieste still in his hands, I thought that he would come to the Russians aid.

While I was obviously stabbed, not sure I made the wrong call there with the information I had. Should have spent more time talking to the Italian to try and get him to commit more meaningfully to France or be anti-Russian.

Overall fun game.

[duckling]

(Continued)

For the last part of the game, I placed all my eggs in the Italian basket.
Peace with Italy or bust, was my thought. I didn’t have intentions of attacking him, although he thought I did.
How I would do that so badly positioned I have no idea. It would’ve basically required Austria and Russia to be at peace, too, leaving Austria alone to hit Italy from behind.

Even if Russia tried to give the impression he was fenced on taking sides with A or I, I never really believed he would abandon Italy. Allying with Austria would be more complex.
Maybe I was just influenced by the fact that both Russia and Italy had previously mentioned the possibility of an FRI in the long term.

I was almost certain Italy would come after me (wouldve been so easy..) but decided to take my chances with hitting England, hoping Italy would play nice.

He did, and at that point he and I managed to put enough distance between us on the map to make a fight impractical.
Then when Italy didn’t build more fleets, I finally felt safe, as it more or less meant neither of us could turn on the other without handing victory to Russia.

I did suspect Russia wanted more than he let on, though. He did have solo potential for a while, and at least one person rejected the first draw proposal, while everyone claimed they hadn’t. Was that Russia hoping to push a bit on, I wonder?

Anyway.. I’m happy with how this ended, since I could easily have been gone.
Key takeaway (unsurprisingly) is that the three of us who drawed kept good and civil talks going. My spats with England and Germany were all rooted in either aggression or lack of communications. England could’ve maybe kept things good between us and changed my mind, but he more or less disappeared from comms. And who knows... had Russia and Austria gone together, I felt Austria and I had good enough dialogue that we could work that out, too.

Good game, if a bit boring end

[MildWombat]

Would like to hear from the others if they get a chance.