New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Suggestions to improve the concept of a PlayDiplomacy League

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How to Frame Results?

Zero-sum (i.e. a 7way draw earns 0)
4
44%
Positive-sum (i.e. a loss earns 0)
5
56%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby jay65536 » 10 Jul 2018, 20:59

boldblade wrote:My thinking is I don't think a new entrant to the league should get an advantage over someone who has been there from the start.


We can discuss further if you want in a different thread, like the scoring system thread in Diplomacy Lore (the one I started). But the short version is, I expected my DNP provision to be controversial. My own opinion is that not playing should be worth zero points--BUT, that means zero points in a zero-sum system, because you neither won nor lost. It should be the equivalent, not of losing, but of taking the least decisive result possible--which, in Diplomacy, is not a loss (which is a decisive negative result) but an equally shared 7-way draw.
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Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby boldblade » 10 Jul 2018, 21:07

Yeah I guess, since I know little to nothing about how your scoring system works, I should reserve judgment on that aspect of it until I see how it works.
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Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby jay65536 » 10 Jul 2018, 21:21

This topic in particular is independent of the specifics of my system. It's a totally separate question: do we score a DNP as a loss, or as an indecisive result? The key observation to me is that those aren't the same (although I've seen people on this site argue that those things should be scored the same).
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Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby Jack007 » 10 Jul 2018, 22:04

I thought a league is something seasonal, starting newly after the season is over. Like in a soccer league, e.g.

The question is what happens with DNP (did not play) events. What would happen if a soccer team would not play a game or a row of games?

In soccer this seems to be extremely rare, as I can't remember a case. I remember one case where a team was declassed from a league due to not fulfilling the conditions of league membership anymore (financial bankruptcy). Not sure anymore, but I believe the league was just continued to finish the season without that team and by not replacing it with a team from the lower leagues. (Which would in fact have ment to replace the uprising team at the lower league with another team from below again, etc.)

I think you shouldn't replace a DNP participant by an exterior player, as in league championship a team/player has to work himself up to the top from the lowest league through all the intermediate leagues.

Isn't it like this? One must take care not to simply create another (permanent) ladder system.

In case of a single DNP, which is like a soccer team not showing up to a match, this can be considered as a forfeit to the waiting team on the playground, thus a win for the latter. Then, there might be a rule that a DNP entails the exclusion from the league.

Of course, in a sport with 7-player games, things get quickly more complex.
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Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby boldblade » 10 Jul 2018, 22:17

jay65536 wrote:do we score a DNP as a loss, or as an indecisive result?


In theory this question is different. However, in practice I think every aspect of the scoring system in question would play a role in how the game is played. So, depending on how the scoring system in question handles those two results I may think differently.
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Re: New Scoring System--would anyone be interested to see?

Postby duckling » 10 Aug 2018, 10:53

Jack007 wrote:
In soccer this seems to be extremely rare, as I can't remember a case. I remember one case where a team was declassed from a league due to not fulfilling the conditions of league membership anymore (financial bankruptcy). Not sure anymore, but I believe the league was just continued to finish the season without that team and by not replacing it with a team from the lower league
...

Of course, in a sport with 7-player games, things get quickly more complex.


Yeah, that would be hard in Dip, since it would mean having to run short handed games, or awarding large draws 5-ways / 6-ways in several games. The latter would rob so many players of many points, whereas in soccer leagues the number of matches are much greater, plus the number of “missing points” are much fewer.
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