Scoring System for Second PDL Season

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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby Saturos » 03 Apr 2018, 21:48

mhsmith0 wrote:
So yes, gaining centers is always good, but the bigger incentive is to make sure you stay at the #1 spot, and in terms of the centers you don't have, it's much more helpful to see the spread out among a bunch of competitors vs bunched more together.


And you think with how our game was going, We wouldn't have ended at 11/11/11 and simply been forced to play much longer?
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 Apr 2018, 21:50

Saturos wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:
So yes, gaining centers is always good, but the bigger incentive is to make sure you stay at the #1 spot, and in terms of the centers you don't have, it's much more helpful to see the spread out among a bunch of competitors vs bunched more together.


And you think with how our game was going, We wouldn't have ended at 11/11/11 and simply been forced to play much longer?

If you were playing SoS instead of draw-based, I doubt you would've gotten to 11/11/11. Much more incentive for one power to get to 13 or 14 rather than keep the even split. It's very difficult in an SoS game to end up with an even split by design.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby Saturos » 03 Apr 2018, 21:54

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
Saturos wrote:
mhsmith0 wrote:
So yes, gaining centers is always good, but the bigger incentive is to make sure you stay at the #1 spot, and in terms of the centers you don't have, it's much more helpful to see the spread out among a bunch of competitors vs bunched more together.


And you think with how our game was going, We wouldn't have ended at 11/11/11 and simply been forced to play much longer?

If you were playing SoS instead of draw-based, I doubt you would've gotten to 11/11/11. Much more incentive for one power to get to 13 or 14 rather than keep the even split. It's very difficult in an SoS game to end up with an even split by design.


I simply disagree. I think the threat of the 2 others in the 3-way turning on you will keep centers even, in exactly the same way it does now.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 Apr 2018, 21:57

Possible, but unlikely. Because the goal is different from the start--it isn't find a stable alliance and ride it to a threeway, it's top the board. Different goal leads to a different approach and a different alliance dynamic.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 Apr 2018, 21:58

nanooktheeskimo wrote:Possible, but unlikely. Because the goal is different from the start--it isn't find a stable alliance and ride it to a threeway, it's top the board. Different goal leads to a different approach and a different alliance dynamic.

If you got to that same end game, yeah, sure, maybe. What I'm saying is that you're unlikely to reach that stable of an end game in SoS, because the incentives and goals are different from the start, so the approach isn't the same.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby duckling » 03 Apr 2018, 22:19

I think the threat of the 2 others in the 3-way turning on you will keep centers even, in exactly the same way it does now.


I think you're thinking in terms of the current scoring, where getting an additional centre or two doesn't give you an advantage.
In SoS, an extra centre can get you a good points lead. That changes the game.
And looking at your game, France is the one poised to make the biggest gains without taking any of his partners centres. Would you risk that, knowing he would race ahead on the scoreboard?
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby duckling » 03 Apr 2018, 22:23

Here are a few other alternative endings:

Image

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1a6yy5oda8ao116/score.jpg
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby Saturos » 03 Apr 2018, 22:28

duckling wrote:
I think the threat of the 2 others in the 3-way turning on you will keep centers even, in exactly the same way it does now.


I think you're thinking in terms of the current scoring, where getting an additional centre or two doesn't give you an advantage.
In SoS, an extra centre can get you a good points lead. That changes the game.
And looking at your game, France is the one poised to make the biggest gains without taking any of his partners centres. Would you risk that, knowing he would race ahead on the scoreboard?


He simply wouldn't. If he did, then Austria gets Munich and I take Tunis, for example. You can't "sneak" them either when your other two allies have ample time to discuss and react. And it isn't like England can do anything if we kill him slightly slower in order to keep centers even.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby duckling » 03 Apr 2018, 22:53

He simply wouldn't. If he did, then Austria gets Munich and I take Tunis, for example. You can't "sneak" them either when your other two allies have ample time to discuss and react. And it isn't like England can do anything if we kill him slightly slower in order to keep centers even.


Exactly. You wouldn't let him.
In the old system, him having a couple of more centres doesn't throw the game off. Everyone still scores their 10 points.
With SoS, you can't risk that. So to compensate for lagging behind, you take centres off him or Austria. Gnawing off until it is even, and like someone pointed out: then you all lose.
You all get 33 points.
([edit] Or, which I think is more likely, when you start gnawing off centres of each other, that's going to create tension. And that might not end up as cosy as you hope.)


Meanwhile, in another game, someone ran off with 40+ points. Now, you all lag behind the league lead, and even worse, you have helped your opposition as much as yourself.

Since this 3-way scenario is undesirable, points wise, you would probably not have ended up in that exact situation to begin with. You would all have aimed differently all along.
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Re: Scoring System for Second PDL Season

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 Apr 2018, 23:30

Since this 3-way scenario is undesirable, points wise, you would probably not have ended up in that exact situation to begin with. You would all have aimed differently all along.

Exactly. From that end game scenario, sure, the outcome is reasonable from an SoS perspective. For a whole game played with SoS scoring though? You're unlikely to get to that point, because of how the incentives are different and how your strategy to achieve a good result is necessarily changed.
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