A Question on Scoring

Suggestions to improve the concept of a PlayDiplomacy League

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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby mjparrett » 25 Nov 2017, 14:05

My comment about you not playing was tongue in cheek.

I kinda agree with you re someone playing France 4 times and getting 0 as opposed to Italy. Chances are that won't happen. And I'm more than willing to have a go with my proposed idea (which won't take any effort on my part crucially) and see how it goes. Again, my main point is that if we adopt your idea, I will then be plagued by comments from others complaining about the scoring system. So year 1 is a wee bit of a trial run.

Of course I hope you free up some time and can commit to year 2. Although by that point you'd have to enter the lowest league available and I can imagine that putting you (and other highly ranked players) off.

Mike
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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby ColonelApricot » 26 Nov 2017, 02:49

Bromley86 wrote:Administratively, it may just be better to use centre counts at the end to break ties. You can just open the archived game, look at the the game status, and not have to bother about adjusting -4 for Russia, -3 for the others. This also dodges the fairness issue of penalising a Russian loss more than a French one.

I'd have a next-level tie breaker based on stats for country draws (PD stats are suspect IMO, so this is what I'd use).

From that, you're looking at FETRGIA if you rank countries in full press games by their win+draw rates (i.e. their chances of surviving). So playing France would be worth 1, Russia 4, and Austria 7. Add up the scores for the 4 games, and you have your second level tie-breaker, with the lower scores being demoted. The logic being that someone who played FETR but scored 0 has probably done worse than someone who played RGIA and scored zero.

Obviously, you don't bother actually doing this until it's actually required, but writing it into the rules ahead of time means everyone knows where they stand.

I'd vote for this. Better to get it right at the start than tweak things later. So that's one vote.

..CA
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A Question on Scoring

Postby rd45 » 26 Nov 2017, 16:57

I like the scoring system as originally proposed. Not because it's perfect, but because it's easily good enough as a first approximation.

BUT... I do agree that it might be worth thinking about some artefacts of tie-breaking only on centre difference, and how that might impact on relegation - which is perhaps the only point at which the way a tie is broken might make any real difference. At the top of the table, there's very likely to be a sufficiently wide range in centre count at the end of games, and therefore in centre difference, so the identity of the league champion ought to be clear enough. But if you're at the bottom, it's probably because you were eliminated from all four games, so you'd have zero points and a centre difference of between -9 and -12 (depending how many times you played as Russia) - with anyone who had been Russia more than once sorted to the very bottom. So like Bromley86, I'm thinking there could easily be multiple players on zero points with equal centre difference at the bottom of each division after four games - albeit you've only really got a problem if there are more players in that position than the no. of relegation places.

Maybe one possible further tie-breaker at the bottom of the table - if needed - is the cumulative no. of years that you lasted for before all of your four eliminations?

A more radical way to solve the same problem - all & only those who are eliminated from all four games are relegated - to be replaced by an equal no. who are promoted from the division below.
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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby mjparrett » 26 Nov 2017, 20:02

Will there be more than 5 people that lose all of their games? I doubt it. Happy to factor in # years after centre difference. But I really don't think it will come down to that.
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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby rd45 » 26 Nov 2017, 21:13

mjparrett wrote:Will there be more than 5 people that lose all of their games? I doubt it. Happy to factor in # years after centre difference. But I really don't think it will come down to that.

You're probably right.

I'm excited about this. As well as the fun & contest of the league structure, it ticks off a couple of the major features (automatically generated or suggested games ; matching up players with roughly equivalent skill levels) that I've long wished we had here. And it's explicitly targeted to all skill levels, which avoids the elitist & exclusionary tendency of recent tournaments. You've done a great job getting it off the ground. Hope it's a big success.
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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby mjparrett » 26 Nov 2017, 22:08

Stop it :P
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Re: A Question on Scoring

Postby mjparrett » 29 Nov 2017, 18:03

No further replies and certainly not 10 people all agreeing on the same system :) This thread is now closed. Please log a new complaint suggestion if you want to start a new scoring system debate. Thanks. Mike
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