PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby jay65536 » 03 Mar 2020, 18:23

Looks like the first D1 game is about to end in a solo--and if you've been watching both January games, as I have, it's not the one you probably thought!

It's a French solo in Game A. The identities of the players haven't been revealed yet, but whoever France is played a strong strategy and it paid off.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby MasterGR » 04 Mar 2020, 07:10

Worth reading the PP for comments from the participants.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby jay65536 » 05 Mar 2020, 21:42

Yes! Already did that.

The most interesting thing to me is everyone hating on Pootleflump. Two years ago, when the PDL first ran, she was the class of the league, not only finishing on top of D1 but also, if memory serves, going in as a sub in Round 3 and saving one player's position to the point that that player was in position to solo (but took a 2way instead) after taking his position back over from her. In fact, in one game she stabbed and then soloed on V, who has now soloed over her in this game.

It seems like people's issue with her is that she was throwing the solo? Having played my fair share of tournaments with scoring systems that were primarily draw-based (which this scoring system is), I have to say I don't understand the hate now that the game is over. I know it can be frustrating in-game, but looking at it from a "macro" level, I'm guessing she probably had a good strategic reason to play that way (if in fact that's what she was doing).
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby Iamnobody » 05 Mar 2020, 23:58

jay65536 wrote:Yes! Already did that.

The most interesting thing to me is everyone hating on Pootleflump. Two years ago, when the PDL first ran, she was the class of the league, not only finishing on top of D1 but also, if memory serves, going in as a sub in Round 3 and saving one player's position to the point that that player was in position to solo (but took a 2way instead) after taking his position back over from her. In fact, in one game she stabbed and then soloed on V, who has now soloed over her in this game.

It seems like people's issue with her is that she was throwing the solo? Having played my fair share of tournaments with scoring systems that were primarily draw-based (which this scoring system is), I have to say I don't understand the hate now that the game is over. I know it can be frustrating in-game, but looking at it from a "macro" level, I'm guessing she probably had a good strategic reason to play that way (if in fact that's what she was doing).



I think this line in the PP describes the main reason people are hating on Pootleflump

"Complete disregard of the big picture and only focused on taking out people for vengeance."

I understand where they are coming from. That would frustrate me too. Although I'm not a fan of "take my toys and go home" when things don't go my way. I may get frustrated and go away for a few hours, but at the end of the day it's a game, not a personal attack (normally).

There is also some accusations of vulgar messages, but I haven't experienced that with Pootleflump.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby V » 06 Mar 2020, 01:17

jay65536 wrote:Yes! Already did that.

The most interesting thing to me is everyone hating on Pootleflump. Two years ago, when the PDL first ran, she was the class of the league, not only finishing on top of D1 but also, if memory serves, going in as a sub in Round 3 and saving one player's position to the point that that player was in position to solo (but took a 2way instead) after taking his position back over from her. In fact, in one game she stabbed and then soloed on V, who has now soloed over her in this game.

It seems like people's issue with her is that she was throwing the solo? Having played my fair share of tournaments with scoring systems that were primarily draw-based (which this scoring system is), I have to say I don't understand the hate now that the game is over. I know it can be frustrating in-game, but looking at it from a "macro" level, I'm guessing she probably had a good strategic reason to play that way (if in fact that's what she was doing).


Hi Jay,

Your recollections of PDL2018 are remarkably accurate considering it’s 2 years back. Indeed in the third round Pootle soloed as France in a game in which I was participating, with a spectacular stab (not so much the first one on me as Germany) but the subsequent game winning one on England. It was a memorable & excellent contest in which Pootle won a superb solo that indeed put her in #1 position, until the tournament was prematurely abandoned.
I must emphasise there were no bad feelings then, or now. We have played in the interim also without any malice. I enjoy playing Diplomacy with Pootle & hope to do so again sometime.

I’m not much good at AAR’s & was not party to any of the “eastern” diplomacy, but my limited understanding is that the eastern situation was adversarial between Russia/Austria/Germany from early on, all the way until end game. This was an obvious enabler for the French solo. I wouldn’t say that “everyone is/was hating on Pootle”. Definitely I’m not & I don’t feel Turkey or Italy have expressed themselves that way.

To get an inside story on the events only 3 participants could provide it & they may prefer not to do so. Certainly when Diplomacy gets heated I usually prefer to forget it & move on. However I will say I think Pootle played well (as always) under adverse circumstances & survived to finish with 4 SC’s. In my opinion that was quite a result in itself. Her strategic approach is always excellent & it’s a shame we won’t see more of her play in PDL2020, but it’s a decision I can understand.

Best Regards V
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby Iamnobody » 06 Mar 2020, 15:16

V wrote:
jay65536 wrote:Yes! Already did that.

The most interesting thing to me is everyone hating on Pootleflump. Two years ago, when the PDL first ran, she was the class of the league, not only finishing on top of D1 but also, if memory serves, going in as a sub in Round 3 and saving one player's position to the point that that player was in position to solo (but took a 2way instead) after taking his position back over from her. In fact, in one game she stabbed and then soloed on V, who has now soloed over her in this game.

It seems like people's issue with her is that she was throwing the solo? Having played my fair share of tournaments with scoring systems that were primarily draw-based (which this scoring system is), I have to say I don't understand the hate now that the game is over. I know it can be frustrating in-game, but looking at it from a "macro" level, I'm guessing she probably had a good strategic reason to play that way (if in fact that's what she was doing).


Hi Jay,

Your recollections of PDL2018 are remarkably accurate considering it’s 2 years back. Indeed in the third round Pootle soloed as France in a game in which I was participating, with a spectacular stab (not so much the first one on me as Germany) but the subsequent game winning one on England. It was a memorable & excellent contest in which Pootle won a superb solo that indeed put her in #1 position, until the tournament was prematurely abandoned.
I must emphasise there were no bad feelings then, or now. We have played in the interim also without any malice. I enjoy playing Diplomacy with Pootle & hope to do so again sometime.

I’m not much good at AAR’s & was not party to any of the “eastern” diplomacy, but my limited understanding is that the eastern situation was adversarial between Russia/Austria/Germany from early on, all the way until end game. This was an obvious enabler for the French solo. I wouldn’t say that “everyone is/was hating on Pootle”. Definitely I’m not & I don’t feel Turkey or Italy have expressed themselves that way.

To get an inside story on the events only 3 participants could provide it & they may prefer not to do so. Certainly when Diplomacy gets heated I usually prefer to forget it & move on. However I will say I think Pootle played well (as always) under adverse circumstances & survived to finish with 4 SC’s. In my opinion that was quite a result in itself. Her strategic approach is always excellent & it’s a shame we won’t see more of her play in PDL2020, but it’s a decision I can understand.

Best Regards V


Did Pootle leave PDL? I didn't see anything about that.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby jay65536 » 06 Mar 2020, 18:09

Iamnobody wrote:I think this line in the PP describes the main reason people are hating on Pootleflump

"Complete disregard of the big picture and only focused on taking out people for vengeance."


I've never played with Pootleflump, but I've talked with her and seen some of her games, and I find it far, FAR less likely that that is accurate, than that the person who wrote that just assumed she was out for petty vengeance and didn't understand her actual motivations. From reading her own public press from before the game ended, she made it sound as though one or more countries in the East did not do enough to assure her that she would be part of a draw if the solo threat were stopped. In a 5-power endgame where draw size is the primary scoring component, things like this matter.

And yeah, I remember her saying she was going to be taking a break from Diplomacy and consequently would bow out of the league after the game she was already in was finished.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby Iamnobody » 06 Mar 2020, 20:37

jay65536 wrote:
Iamnobody wrote:I think this line in the PP describes the main reason people are hating on Pootleflump

"Complete disregard of the big picture and only focused on taking out people for vengeance."


I've never played with Pootleflump, but I've talked with her and seen some of her games, and I find it far, FAR less likely that that is accurate, than that the person who wrote that just assumed she was out for petty vengeance and didn't understand her actual motivations. From reading her own public press from before the game ended, she made it sound as though one or more countries in the East did not do enough to assure her that she would be part of a draw if the solo threat were stopped. In a 5-power endgame where draw size is the primary scoring component, things like this matter.

And yeah, I remember her saying she was going to be taking a break from Diplomacy and consequently would bow out of the league after the game she was already in was finished.


Yeah, I don't know the truth since I wasn't in the game. That line from the PP was just very telling to me.

Pootle stabbed me once, but it was well done and I have no hate for her. It's too bad she is walking away for a bit, but sometimes we all need that break.
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby jay65536 » 08 Mar 2020, 03:06

A massive shock for me as an observer--the second January game (in D1) ends in a solo. But it's a Turkish solo instead of an English one!

This was an epic collapse by England, who should have had the solo earlier. It also means D1 is still waiting on its first draw with two boards finished, which is extremely unusual in a tournament setting!
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Re: PDL 2020 Viewers Lounge

Postby Woolgie » 08 Mar 2020, 15:21

jay65536 wrote:A massive shock for me as an observer--the second January game (in D1) ends in a solo. But it's a Turkish solo instead of an English one!

This was an epic collapse by England, who should have had the solo earlier. It also means D1 is still waiting on its first draw with two boards finished, which is extremely unusual in a tournament setting!



Totally in awe of this solo, Turkey bided their time very well and I offer major congratulations. Yes, England’s failure to defend Silessia and then Munich was part of the victory but Turkey also needed to know where to press and when, and also tempt France to leave their rear unguarded, so let’s not take away from Turkey’s gameplay.

Two solos in D1 gives us an early leading pair but at least those on zero aren’t very far off 3rd. :)
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