Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 5/5+ Confirmed

A game in which players accumulate points to alter past orders. Designed and GM'ed by Marsman57. Ended in a 3 way draw shared by EpicDim (Egypt), Aeschines (Greece), and Nanooktheeskimo (Rome)

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Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 5/5+ Confirmed

Postby marsman57 » 10 Nov 2015, 20:40

Edit: In hopes of getting a test off the ground. I am officially recruiting a five player variant. I'll still run 6-7 if I get an unexpected upswell of support.

Some of you may remember my post about time travel diplomacy a few years ago. My docket of games has lightened up enough that I'd like to give it a run. The rules are slightly changed from the initial version so that all time travel orders are only entered during order phases. This is primarily to ease GMing the game by only having past changes twice per game year instead of up to five times.

The basic premise of the game is that in addition to standard orders, you have a number of "time travel" points that may be used to alter your orders in past phases. This can have a butterfly effect to the current phase as changes accrue and orders that were once wise become foolish. Literally, spending these points to change orders is the only change. Everything else is just specifying limits to Present orders so that players don't submit 50 orders each phase for any condition that might arise. :)

I understand that there is some risk in running a game like this because it is GM intensive, but that is why I all other rules remain standard. These changes will allow for the use of an adjudication software to make sure mistakes don't occur. Nonetheless, it may take up to 24 hours after a deadline for orders to post if the GM has to reach into the past.

I am entering this game initially as 0/7 for the standard map, but if there are fewer players who are interested; we can discuss using a different map or playing a shorthanded game. I know a lot of games are having trouble recruiting now, but I am hopeful this will be interesting enough to get some people out of the woodwork.

Looking back at the last topic, I realize a lot of people didn't quite "get" the rules. Please ask questions if you don't understand what is going on.


Joined:
I Love Italy - CONFIRMED
EpicDim - CONFIRMED
Aeschines - CONFIRMED
nanooktheeskimo - CONFIRMED (Available after the first week of June)
Biscuitoid - CONFIRMED

Gardenpatch -- No reply
Mikeoregan -- Diplomacy Break
locksmithvic (but something he said in the meantime makes me think he may be leaving the site) -- Unresponsive to PMs.

Interested:
Pedros - Left site :( :o :(
Hindu_Warrior

Possibly Interested (maybe I'm just being optimistic):
haroonriaz

Subs:



Rules wrote:The 2008 Diplomacy Rules apply except as noted below (https://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy.pdf).

1. Definitions

a. The Present is defined as the current phase that is open to orders. Rules that refer to the Present refer to the state of the game at the end of the last phase processed.

b. A "Season" in the game refers to Spring of a year and Fall of a year. Spring consists of an Orders Phase and Retreat Phase while Fall consists of an Orders phase, Retreats phase, and Build phase. Anything that refers to a number of seasons in the past only refers to the Spring or Fall as a whole and not the individual phases within the season.

2. Each player starts with 4 "time travel" points at the beginning of the game.

3. Players accrue additional time travel points at the start of each year's Fall Build phase based on their rank in SCs in the Present. All players with 3 or more supply centers gain 2 "time travel "points, players with 1-2 supply centers gain 4 "time travel points", and players with no supply centers gain 0 "time travel points". These points are only awarded in the present and the totals do not change even if past situations change to put a player in a different "class" than they were when the time period rolled around in the present.

4. Each Present Orders phase, a player may enter a maximum number of orders equal to the number of supply centers they hold in the Present (additional orders will be discarded and unreported). These orders may correspond to units on the board in the present, but that is not required. Any units in the Present who do not receive orders will be adjudicated as holding.

5. Each Present Retreat phase, in addition to any required retreats, a player may make a provisional retreat order for every unit they own. These additional orders will be applied if the past changes in any way that causes the unit to need to retreat. This is not required, but if the unit is required to retreat without such an order present, the unit will auto-disband. As a result, there will ALWAYS be a retreat phase even if it is not required.

6. Each Present build phase, a player may submit build orders up to the number of home supply centers controlled at the start of the game (i.e. 4 for Russia, 3 for all others, this is 3 for all powers in Ancient Med). A number of orders equal to your number of available builds will then be executed sequentially. Illegal orders will be skipped. For example, if Turkey were to order Fleet CON, Army ANK, and Fleet SMY while having 2 actual builds available and CON occupied, units would be raised in ANK and SMY. If CON later became unoccupied, the builds would be reprocessed with the results instead raising units in CON and ANK while SMY would be skipped.. You are not required to enter this maximum number of orders if you do not want a unit to be raised in a home center even if it is empty.

Additionally, all players may also submit a disbandment preference list in case the past changes such that they have to take a disbandment during that phase after a change. This list can contain all Present unit locations, but must contain at least the number of units equal to disbandments you currently need to take in the Present. If the disbandment list is not exhaustive enough, the rules for Civil Disorder come into play.

7. Additionally each Orders phase (not builds/retreats), a player may spend time travel points to make changes to the past in the manners specified below. There is no limit to how far into the past you may change orders.

a. One time travel point may be spent per season per unit to order units in the past. This order can be a change to an existing order or the addition of a new order. For example if it is currently Fall 1903 and you have 4 "time travel" points, you could spend them to make 4 orders for Spring 1903, 2 orders for Fall 1902, one order for Spring 1901 [you'd have one remaining point in this case], or any combination of these. This order may either be a modficiation of a current order [For example changing Bre-MAO to Bre-Eng] or the addition of a new order. [To continue our example, the next phase may have had an order of MAO-Spain originally, but now we will add an order of Eng-Lon. The order for MAO-Spain will still exist in the phase though unless changed separately.].

b. Past Retreat phases may be modified similarly, but at a cost of 1/2 of one point per unit per season. For example: If it were Fall 1902, it could cost 1/2 a point to modify Spring 1902, 1 point to modify Fall 1901, and 1 1/2 points to modify Spring 1901.

c. Past Build phases may be modified similar as well at the cost of 1/2 point per season. Unlike order and retreat phases, the build phase may be completely rewritten with each modification (including the disbandment preference list -- see #6 above).

8. Phases are then reprocessed from the furthest phase in the past with a change all the way to the present. The GM will provide the maps for all changed phases as well as a summary of what orders were changed.

9. A player without SCs may still make time travel orders as long as he has points remaining, but will enter no orders in the present. While not fully eliminated, such a player does not get a vote on draws and may not be included in them. If the past changes to bring them back into the game, they may be included and must assent to any outstanding draws.

10. If a power which was eliminated is returned to the game, but the player is no longer available; the GM will use his discretion (possibly in discussion with the players) to determine whether fielding a replacement player is worthwhile (i.e. is the power more than likely going to be "re-eliminated" immediately?). If it is determined that it is not worthwhile, the rules for civil disorder will apply.

11. The game is won if you have 18 supply centers during at the beginning of any Fall Build phase past or Present (yes, even if you would have lost 18 before the game processed all the way to the Present). To elaborate on this slightly, let us say that it is Spring 1910 and England had 15 supply centers at the beginning of Fall 1907. To try to push over the top, they issue past order changes so that in Fall 1908 they progress to 18 supply centers. Other actions would have brought them back down to 17 supply centers by Fall 1909, but it does not matter as the game immediately ends in Fall 1908 when England hits the win condition. This also illustrates how the game could end after a Spring phase.

Appendix A: Notes on Orders

1. The specification of "F" or "A" next to an order will be ignored in all instances. So, even if you order "F Bre-Pic" explicitly, if later in the game the past changes such that an army finds its way there, the army will move from Bre-Pic.

2. Initial units are considered explicitly built in the Fall phase before the first game phase and do not exist on maps before that point (so basically, the Fall 1900 Adjustments adjudication for Austria would read like: "F Tri, A Bud, A Vie"). Unoccupied home supply centers are considered to have been owned by the player since the beginning of time though.

3. If a unit is moving between two locations that can be reached by direct land movement or via convoy, it will be adjudicated as follows. (This is the same as the default, but it is more likely to come up in this game than a standard game so I wanted to issue a few clarifications/reminders)
a. If at least one of the convoying Fleets belongs to the player who controls the Army, then the convoy is used. The land route is disregarded.. Note that if the convoy disappears later, the land route will be taken if there is no special "via convoy" designation.
b. If none of the convoying Fleets belongs to the player who controls the Army, then the land route is used UNLESS the player controlling the Army indicates "via convoy" on the Army move order.
c. Specifying "via convoy" when there is no valid convoy will result in the move failing as unreachable (the same as with any other convoy for which there are no ships). This is distinct from a hold in that the failure cannot be supported.
d. Adding or removing "via convoy" on past orders counts the same as changing the order in other manners.

4. The only limitation in how far you can go back in time is your number of time travel points.
Last edited by marsman57 on 26 May 2016, 21:04, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby Gooderian » 10 Nov 2015, 21:28

And I thought Devious GM II had became the biggest mess ever seen on a diplomacy board.

NOPE!
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby EpicDim » 10 Nov 2015, 21:43

I'd play this.

Question though, why would you write the rule this way:
For example if Turkey were to order builds in Con, Smy, and Ank in this order, but the past changes so that he is entitled to 2 builds but Con is occupied; it will be executed as Con [illegal no build], and Smy [build executed]. The Ank order would not be executed as it is in excess of the builds available currently.

vs
saying the Con order is invalid so skip it and do the next two?
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby FrankC » 10 Nov 2015, 21:52

I can't figure out if I'm intrigued or insane.....

I'll have a few drinks tonight and look again. That'll help....
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby locksmithvic » 10 Nov 2015, 22:37

I'm in.
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-Fortune favours the bold, but I'm too paranoid to test that theory.
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby marsman57 » 10 Nov 2015, 23:21

EpicDim wrote:I'd play this.

Question though, why would you write the rule this way:
For example if Turkey were to order builds in Con, Smy, and Ank in this order, but the past changes so that he is entitled to 2 builds but Con is occupied; it will be executed as Con [illegal no build], and Smy [build executed]. The Ank order would not be executed as it is in excess of the builds available currently.

vs
saying the Con order is invalid so skip it and do the next two?


I'm willing to consider the alternate. In fact I'd waffled about It repeatedly It makes build phases a little unpredictable as occupation changes but I suppose it's more likely to keep armies in the game. I'll ponder more.

Was that an official "in" btw?
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby I Love Italy » 11 Nov 2015, 01:52

I'm in.
I have special eyes.
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby UpQuark » 11 Nov 2015, 03:33

marsman57 wrote:I'm willing to consider the alternate. In fact I'd waffled about It repeatedly It makes build phases a little unpredictable as occupation changes but I suppose it's more likely to keep armies in the game. I'll ponder more.

Was that an official "in" btw?



Are you serious? THAT is what makes it "a little unpredictable"?

Man you have gone off your rocker in the past couple years mate! Glad to see you here though - crazy as a loon, but here.
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby EpicDim » 11 Nov 2015, 04:06

Was that an official "in" btw?


Yes

I'd prefer the alternative build rule but I'm in either way.
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Re: Time Travel Diplomacy Recruiting - 0/7

Postby marsman57 » 11 Nov 2015, 15:41

UpQuark wrote:Man you have gone off your rocker in the past couple years mate! Glad to see you here though - crazy as a loon, but here.


I think I've been off my rocker for some time. I initially drafted these rules in 2012. :lol:

But really, I'm the type of guy who loves Vain Rats and Devious GM, what do you expect?

As an aside, I never left the site! I just have been pretty quiet outside of my current games, and for quite some time was only in Royale which ran way under the radar due to it's initial classification as an OFG.

EpicDim wrote:I'd prefer the alternative build rule but I'm in either way.


I changed it. I didn't have any compelling reason not to. Feel free to comb through the rules again and let me know if anything is unclear or might could use an adjustment.
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