AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

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AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

Postby sinnybee » 02 Oct 2014, 06:10

Game 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2 is the 25th PDVT game to finish, being the third of 8 semifinals / Phase 2 games to finish.

Image Image Thorntonian Empire earned 134 points in game C2: SOLO WIN 110 Germany 21 Egypt 3

Image Image sjg11 earned 10 points in game C2: Turkey 7 Yugoslavia 3
Image Image jimmygrimble earned 7 points in game C2: France 6 Spain 1
Image Image ColesD earned 2 points in game C2: Italy 2 Rumania 0

Image Image alvin1912 earned 0 points in game C2: Britain 0 Sweden 0
Image Image spudboy earned 0 points in game C2: USSR 0 Greece 0
Image Image tourdefeu1 earned 0 points in game C2: Poland 0 Czechoslov. 0

Scores are also listed here.

Congratulations to all 7 players for not surrendering!
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Re: AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

Postby Thorntonian Empire » 02 Oct 2014, 06:42

The first thing I did was cringe when I found out I was Germany and Egypt. For some reason I thought that Germany was in the toughest position as I thought an early joint attack from France and Britain could not be stopped and easily happen.

I was very friendly in the first year to everyone, but France and Britain still invaded as I feared. I was prepared for this though and prevented Denmark, Belgium, and Switzerland from going to their side in the first year with the lovely help of Czech. I feared though that even with my great relationship with Italy and Poland that I would still die off.

Then, one of my brave little sharks sneaked around the British/Swedish enemy lines by allowing Britain into Denmark and taking the North Sea which gave me Edinburgh and was the eventual downfall of Britain. The one unit broke his line and Britain was eventually going to fall to Germany. I no longer feared my initial survival.


One key thing to note is that I jumped to a new alliance every Single year due to mostly Poland's various stabs

In 1931 I had a Central Alliance with Poland and Italy which ended due to Poland using Czech to stab Italy
I then worked out a alliance with Turkey and Poland in 1932 while also trying to get the Central Alliance back on board.
By getting Italy to attack France I was able then to work out a Western Triple in 1933 since Britain and France were desperate for a third partner, which I then immediately betrayed them to fully take down Britain as there was NO way I was going to trust them after immediately attacking me from the start. Then I was able to fully make the Central Alliance again in 1934. In 1935, Poland betrayed us and I separately and personally made Post-Poland Alliance (Germany, France, and Turkey) and NATO (Germany, France, Turkey, and Italy)

By getting everyone to turn on Poland (which was justified) I was able to get myself in a great position as both Germany and Egypt and just take so much territory in such little time which eventually led Germany's conquer of Europe. A fun and good game but at the end there was not a great resistance being led against me which allowed me to take the solo.


Egypt just sat around in the corner for most of the game. I had a good relationship with Turkey which allowed for us to both prosper in the beginning. Poland stabbing Turkey allowed me to convince Turkey not to go to Egypt. So, Thanks go to Poland for that as well. I would also like to add for a fun fact that I always get Rumania or Egypt as a minor is most Versailles games out of the Versailles tournament as well. I am pretty sure I will be the major of either Rumania or Egypt in the Final Board as well.
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Re: AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

Postby ColesD » 02 Oct 2014, 12:42

As Thorntonian Empire has already mentioned, this game (at least for me) was driven by Polish stabs. Unfortunately, the stabs affected primarily me and not Germany, so I went down due to them, and he went up. That determined the game. I feel I blew this one - I could and probably should have got something out of it, but I made the wrong choices at certain times. Ironically the problem was not choosing to ally with Germany, the eventual winner, with whom I believe I could have (and did for a brief while) forged a strong alliance which would never have led to a German solo. The problem was trusting Poland.

Seeing a France v Germany fight coming from the very beginning, I chose rather riskily to play both sides against the middle for a while, avoiding committing until I picked a side. With a USSR-Turkey alliance in the east, I had no chance of holding the Rumanian homeland, so brought the army west to link up with Italy. Then came Poland stab 1 - he took Hungary and destroyed the Rumanians. At this point I could have given up on him, and that was my key mistake - I should have.

I had still not committed in the west, so I could have joined in the war on Germany, but certain things made me go the other way. I could not guarantee getting enough out of Germany to make it worth my while, I risked a further assault by Poland (who was still committed to Germany at that point), and most crucially, it would mean that nothing was being done about the USSR-Turkey alliance, which would continue to grow into a major threat to my east. By going with the Central Alliance (Germany-Italy-Poland, plus crucially Egypt), I could see it would benefit us all, we could crush both England-France in the west and USSR-Turkey in the east and emerge as the dominant powers, ready to duke it out between ourselves, or settle for a 3-way draw if that proved impossible. It seemed win-win for everyone in the alliance as far as I could see, so I committed, and attacked France, whilst setting up to attack Turkey with Poland. Everything was great - except I should have known I couldn't trust Poland.

The new Central Alliance lasted about a year before Poland stabbed me. After that, I was more or less a walking corpse, relying on the generosity of others to survive (notably Germany until he was ready to take his solo). I'd also got myself into a war with France I couldn't get out of, and couldn't win. So the game meandered towards its conclusion with my significance in it more or less over. It was a good game, and I enjoyed playing it, but I do feel it was a missed opportunity on my part.
Information, the first principle of warfare, must form the foundation of all your efforts. Know, of course, thine enemy. But in knowing him do not forget above all to know thyself. The commander who embraces this totality of battle shall win even with inferior force. - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
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Re: AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

Postby alvin1912 » 02 Oct 2014, 21:29

A short AAR.

As Britain it is good to have Sweden as minor, as that could probably the closest minor it could get.
So at the beginning I would prefer to dominant in Scandinavia. So that the first competitor would probably be USSR. I have talked with Poland and it seems he agree to attack USSR together. So that Stockholm bounced USSR in Finland for the first year.
France initial an attack against Germany and asked for ally while Germany didn't give any promise for the first year, as Italy tell me that he would prefer to attack Germany together, I think it would be fine to have Germany as an secondary target, though I think that I could at most take Denmark instead.
It is out of my expect that USSR put all its force into Scandinavia and it proven to be my mistake for not moving Finland into Leningrad if I know that USSR is so anti-Britain. Till now I still couldn't understand why would USSR ignore Poland and push all its force toward Scandinavia and keep on helping others attack me till his end. That's my failure for not able to pulling USSR to my side or at least less aggressive to me. USSR seems very unwilling to have a deep conservation with me, perhaps it is Germany or Poland successful turning him against. Anyway I think one of the Germany fleet moved into North Sea is not so dangerous to me, but the aggressive movement of USSR followed with Poland stab lead to my fall. Also I have made a mistake that forget major could dislodge minor units.

After Italy turned on France without noticing me, I have been so passive in the game and could only act as secondary powers. France initial an alliance with Germany and I have to agree with it. And turned out it is another stab just as Thorntonian Empire mentioned. Then I tried to persuade Poland to take the solo. If Poland could attack Germany just in time while Italy and France engaged deeply in the west, perhaps there a chance that I could become one of the member of coalition and survive in the game, but Poland stabbed Italy first instead of Germany, and as Poland delayed one year to attack Germany, Thorntonian Empire have successfully form anti-Poland alliance and finally turned France against me, then my fall is inevitable after that and could only survive as one unit nation with the help of different countries.

Actually I am not sure why it seems Italy not interested to pull me against France and refused me to take Portugal for twice. I think Italy would want to end the war against France as soon as possible and hence able to free its units on other directions. With Britain help taking some of France SCs should able to help Italy win the war against France, and a stronger Britain would be pro-Italy. Italy takes more advantages as Germany have to take more time to eliminate me (which belongs to Germany gain). While Italy should able to take some France SCs instead. Finally it turns out that Germany help France to take my SC and subsidize France keep on his war against Italy, and given Germany solo chance after all.

Congratulations to Thorntonian Empire. I have said that you are the players that would stab and take the solo after all, though you insist you are much prefer to have a draw and reluctant in the messages :D . I may add some more review after I have time to read all the messages and order history again, but now I am occupied with the event happening in Hong Kong right now, sorry for not writing too detail now.
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Re: AAR: 85477. PD Versailles Tournament Game C2

Postby ColesD » 03 Oct 2014, 00:16

On Portugal - thanks for pointing out another of my mistakes! Initially (1934) remember the Central Alliance I described was still going on, so I felt we could roll over everyone without needing to use you against each other (and I maintain we probably would have if Poland hadn't stabbed). After the stab, I just needed the build, and hoped you would withdraw to defend Britain rather than continue to contest Portugal. Trouble is, once your fleet had eventually gone, France had recovered enough that I could no longer take and hold Portugal, and my last chance for recovery in the game was gone.

So in hindsight, I definitely should have let you in in '34. Would it have made a difference? I don't know, but it was one part of the larger mistake I was making at the time which cost me the game.
Information, the first principle of warfare, must form the foundation of all your efforts. Know, of course, thine enemy. But in knowing him do not forget above all to know thyself. The commander who embraces this totality of battle shall win even with inferior force. - Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
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