AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

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AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby sinnybee » 25 May 2014, 07:37

Game 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6 is the seventeenth of 22 PDVT Phase 1 games to finish.

ImageImageMozzarella earned 132 points in game B6: SOLO WIN 110 France 21 Greece 1
ImageImageAntigonos earned 13 points in game B6: Britain 10 Egypt 3
ImageImagegislason auto_surrendered Fall 1937 (then deltanu148) earned 5 points in game B6: Turkey 5 Rumania 0
ImageImageasudevil earned 1 points in game B6: USSR 1 Czechoslov. 0
ImageImageSaltySailor earned 1 points in game B6: Italy 0 Yugoslavia 1
ImageImagejuangrisart (Sosui Kurama not authorized to play) (simoncarr auto_surrendered Fall 1933) earned 1 points in game B6: Poland 1 Spain 0
ImageImageth14jkjoe earned 0 points in game B6: Germany 0 Sweden 0
Their scores are also here.

Other than gislason's auto_surrender at the end of the game, the only surrender was by simoncarr EDIT: which was certainly excused. Thanks to juangrisart for filling in and to everyone else for sticking it out through the length of the game.

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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby Mozzarella » 25 May 2014, 10:07

A lot of things happened in this game, from my point of view.
In order to win, I had to stab Italy (twice) and my long term ally Britain. I also got some help from Poland and USSR.

Yugoslavia was resurrected in the build phase of 1935, the first time I witnessed this special event!
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby Antigonos » 26 May 2014, 20:50

Mozzarella wrote:A lot of things happened in this game, from my point of view.
In order to win, I had to stab Italy (twice) and my long term ally Britain. I also got some help from Poland and USSR.

Yugoslavia was resurrected in the build phase of 1935, the first time I witnessed this special event!


France played a fine game and had a perfect sense of timing with his stabs. I half expected the last one but did not make the moves that might have led to a different outcome and for that I apologize to Italy who played a fine game under difficult circumstances. The replacement Turkey also did his best. Germany was surly but fought as best he could.

Until the last two years my game was divided into playing Egypt and supporting Turkey (an ally). It was my first chance to have some scope in playing as a minor and I enjoyed it. As Britain I had a long and difficult campaign to conquer Scandinavia and Leningrad in a fight against USSR and Poland. I did achieve my goal only to be stabbed but it was enjoyable until that last moment.

However I was quite disappointed with the attitude and level of play by the other players especially given that this was a tournament game where I expected a high level of play. Poland I surrendered. Turkey I did a walkabout at a crucial point in the game and finally auto-surrendered. But perhaps what I found most contemptible was that for over half the game USSR and his ally Poland worked assiduously to give the solo to France. Not out of a strategy to break the France-Britain-Turkey coalition but simply out of pique. They made no serious attempts to negotiate and break the group that was beating them (in contrast to Italy who wrote with cogent warnings and logical arguments).

Added to this as the repeated whinging of the USSR over the fact that I "lied to him" and tricked him several times in successive moves. This is Diplomacy after all. He (and Poland) achieved their slow motion suicide and evacuated supply centers to France who cannot be faulted for taking the gift. I can't argue that USSR and Poland II achieved their goal but I can hope that I never come across them in a future game.
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby sinnybee » 27 May 2014, 00:09

Antigonos wrote:Poland I surrendered.

Oh, here's simoncarr's other game.
sinnybee wrote:Simoncarr hasn't been back to the site much since having a heart attack, so obviously his surrender is excused. Still, he apologizes for disappearing [part]-way through the game.
We all wish you recovery, health and strength, simoncarr!
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby Antigonos » 27 May 2014, 00:22

sinnybee wrote:
Antigonos wrote:Poland I surrendered.

Oh, here's simoncarr's other game.
sinnybee wrote:Simoncarr hasn't been back to the site much since having a heart attack, so obviously his surrender is excused. Still, he apologizes for disappearing [part]-way through the game.
We all wish you recovery, health and strength, simoncarr!


Sinnybee thank you for the update.

Poland I surrendered but was replaced quickly with little or no ill effect on the game. I am sorry to hear that he had a heart attack (had one myself some years ago) and hope he recovers quickly and fully. Of course his surrender due to real life issues of a serious nature require no apology though from what Sinnybee reports he did still take the trouble to surrender properly and to communicate with Sinnybee.

Turkey I , on the other hand, simply vanished and failed to give in orders until there was an auto-surrender. Though his replacement jumped in quickly and competently this sequence did have an impact on the game.
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby sinnybee » 27 May 2014, 03:23

Antigonos wrote:Turkey I , on the other hand, simply vanished and failed to give in orders until there was an auto-surrender. Though his replacement jumped in quickly and competently this sequence did have an impact on the game.

There has been at least one tournament game in which at least one player made a big deal about communicating with me, telling me about another player who had become unresponsive, who I don't think had even NMRed for more than one turn.
What I ended up doing was putting in a substitute, getting an admin or moderator to log in as the unresponsive player, naming a willing player (whom I had already lined up to fill the position) as a substitute, who was able to immediately join the game.
It was a "everybody wins" solution--players in the game once again got a game full of responsive players, the substitute had no risk to their rating (just in case that might have been an issue), and the unresponsive player was able to avoid what might have been an auto_surrender, also able to cancel the substitute and rejoin the game at any time (though I asked that they ask me before doing so).

Anyway, I'm not saying that you (Antigonos) or anyone else in the game did something wrong by not informing me of there being an unresponsive player, but I did tell players that if possible, they should please let me know ASAP if a player surrenders and also if they think a player is about to surrender.
So, from my point of view, no one should really be able to be frustrated about a player in their game "simply vanish[ing] and fail[ing] to give in orders until there was an auto-surrender", because if the player (Antigonos in this case) would have complained to me about the situation, I might have stuck a substitute into the position, averting the auto_surrender altogether.
If you (Antigonos) did PM about the situation in the game and if I didn't do anything about it in a timely manner, then I am sorry.
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby Antigonos » 27 May 2014, 05:54

sinnybee wrote:
Antigonos wrote:Turkey I , on the other hand, simply vanished and failed to give in orders until there was an auto-surrender. Though his replacement jumped in quickly and competently this sequence did have an impact on the game.

There has been at least one tournament game in which at least one player made a big deal about communicating with me, telling me about another player who had become unresponsive, who I don't think had even NMRed for more than one turn.
What I ended up doing was putting in a substitute, getting an admin or moderator to log in as the unresponsive player, naming a willing player (whom I had already lined up to fill the position) as a substitute, who was able to immediately join the game.
It was a "everybody wins" solution--players in the game once again got a game full of responsive players, the substitute had no risk to their rating (just in case that might have been an issue), and the unresponsive player was able to avoid what might have been an auto_surrender, also able to cancel the substitute and rejoin the game at any time (though I asked that they ask me before doing so).

Anyway, I'm not saying that you (Antigonos) or anyone else in the game did something wrong by not informing me of there being an unresponsive player, but I did tell players that if possible, they should please let me know ASAP if a player surrenders and also if they think a player is about to surrender.
So, from my point of view, no one should really be able to be frustrated about a player in their game "simply vanish[ing] and fail[ing] to give in orders until there was an auto-surrender", because if the player (Antigonos in this case) would have complained to me about the situation, I might have stuck a substitute into the position, averting the auto_surrender altogether.
If you (Antigonos) did PM about the situation in the game and if I didn't do anything about it in a timely manner, then I am sorry.


Perhaps I should have read the tournament rules more carefully as I did not know it was an option. I discussed the disappearance of Turkey with France and he did not seem aware of this option either. There was a missed move and no communication for at least a phase prior to this and then the NMR auto-surrender. But as I said I really did not know of the option of doing a PM to you.

In any case from my perspective what really tainted the game was the attitude and actions of Poland and USSR which is allowed under the rules.
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby juangrisart » 28 May 2014, 07:51

Hmmm.

"In any case from my perspective what really tainted the game was the attitude and actions of Poland and USSR which is allowed under the rules"

You are whining about players whose actions are within the rules. If I did not like the rules of a game then I would either not play the game or try to have the rules changed.
Poland's actions with regard tp Britain changed only after discovering how Britain had gloated over his, admittedly perfect, deception. Poland did not mind being deceived - that is the name of the game - what Poland did find nauseating was Britain's attitude after the successful deception.
I am sorry that Britain would wish never to take part in a game in which I was a player as I have great respect for his diplomatic ability (move-wise); less so of his diplomatic attitude.
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Re: AAR: 79710. PD Versailles Tournament Game B6

Postby Mozzarella » 28 May 2014, 21:50

Antigonos wrote:Perhaps I should have read the tournament rules more carefully as I did not know it was an option. I discussed the disappearance of Turkey with France and he did not seem aware of this option either. There was a missed move and no communication for at least a phase prior to this and then the NMR auto-surrender. But as I said I really did not know of the option of doing a PM to you.

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the option either.

sinnybee wrote:Simoncarr hasn't been back to the site much since having a heart attack, so obviously his surrender is excused. Still, he apologizes for disappearing [part]-way through the game.
We all wish you recovery, health and strength, simoncarr!

I'm sorry to hear he had to end the game this way. Sending you well wishes for your quick recovery and good health, Simoncarr!
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