Nomic 5 Proposal 3XX: Out of Sequence

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Nomic 5 Proposal 3XX: Out of Sequence

Postby Ugluk » 25 Mar 2014, 08:34

312: Interplayer Currency Exchanges

A. Any player may initiate a trade proposal during the phases of rule proposal and/or rule voting.
- 1. The format of trades shall be one or more non-zero integer quantities of one or more currencies offered, followed by one or more non-zero integer quantities of one or more currencies to be received. The proposal needs no special formatting, as long at the text size is normal or larger.
- 2. Example: I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
-- a. In this example, Ugluk is offering two of his testicles, and a reduction of his negative force level by 10 points in order to receive an increase of twenty points. If accepted, the other party will gain 2 orc testicles, shift his force level negatively by a degree of 10, and lose 20 points.
- 3. Once initiated, no further proposals are valid within the same Rule Proposal unless all previous valid proposals have been accepted or counter-offered.
- 4. All unaccepted trade proposals are invalidated upon the conclusion of any Rule voting phase.
- 5. The trade proposer must possess sufficient quantities of each offered trade currency for their trade proposal to be valid.
-- a. Offering a trade without sufficient quantities of each offered trade currency automatically invalidates all subsequent trade proposals by the same player until the Rule voting phase ends, as a punitive measure.

B. Any player may accept any unaccepted trade proposal or counter-offer if the player has sufficient quantities asked for in the trade.
- 1. The format of trade or counter-offer acceptance will be the quoting of the trade proposal or counter-offer, followed by a clear expression of intent to accept, such as, "I accept this offer."
- 2. Example:
Ugluk wrote:I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
You have yourself a deal.
-- a. In this example, someone-not-Ugluk shall have their points reduced by 20, their midi-chlorians shifted negatively by 10, and their orc testicle tally bumped up by 2. Meanwhile, Ugluk receives 20 points, at the cost of those items he offered. Don't worry - Ugluk has balls to spare.
-- b. Note: someone-not-Ugluk's midi-chlorian currency level is irrelevant with respect to the example trade, as they are receiving, not proposing to give the currency.
- 3. Accepting a trade proposal or counter-offer ends the trade proposal or counter-offer immediately, and no other player may subsequently accept the same trade proposal or counter-offer (unless proposed or counter-offered anew).

C. Any player may counter-offer any unaccepted trade proposal or counter-offer.
- 1. Counter-offers must include all currencies offered in the original trade proposal or counter-offer, with a non-zero integer quantity.
- 2. Currencies may be shifted between sides of the offer, so long as at least one currency remains on each side of the counter-offered trade.
- 3. Examples
-- a.
Ugluk wrote:I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
I offer 15 points for 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles.
-- b.
Ugluk wrote:I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
I offer 25 points for 5 light midi-chlorians and 5 orc testicles.
-- c.
Ugluk wrote:I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
I offer 20 points and 10 light midi-chlorians for 7 orc testicles and 1 alice point.

D. No player may be compelled to propose, counter-offer, or accept any trade.
- 1. Any rule, thing, power, condition, threat, debt, honor, or other force acting to influence a proposal, counter-offer, or acceptance of trade shall be be invalid, and any result thereof shall be unrecognized.

Disclaimer: This rule proposal is not intended to expand upon or clarify the names or behaviors of aspects of other rules. Currencies referenced may or may not exist.
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby sinnybee » 25 Mar 2014, 09:07

orc testicles... awesome.
Ugluk wrote:Don't worry - Ugluk has balls to spare.

*sigh* Thank goodness for that, I was frightened there for a moment ;).
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby super_dipsy » 25 Mar 2014, 11:35

Ugluk wrote:A. Any player may initiate a trade proposal during the phases of rule proposal and/or rule voting.
- 1. The format of trades shall be one or more non-zero integer quantities of one or more currencies offered, followed by one or more non-zero integer quantities of one or more currencies to be received. The proposal needs no special formatting, as long at the text size is normal or larger.
- 2. Example: I wish to trade 10 dark midi-chlorians and 2 orc testicles for 20 points.
-- a. In this example, Ugluk is offering two of his testicles, and a reduction of his negative force level by 10 points in order to receive an increase of twenty points. If accepted, the other party will gain 2 orc testicles, shift his force level negatively by a degree of 10, and lose 20 points.
- 3. Once initiated, no further proposals are valid within the same Rule Proposal unless all previous valid proposals have been accepted or counter-offered.
- 4. All unaccepted trade proposals are invalidated upon the conclusion of any Rule voting phase.
- 5. The trade proposer must possess sufficient quantities of each offered trade currency for their trade proposal to be valid.
-- a. Offering a trade without sufficient quantities of each offered trade currency automatically invalidates all subsequent trade proposals by the same player until the Rule voting phase ends, as a punitive measure.

I think I am misunderstanding something here, so apologies if this is a bit dumb. The way I read it, 3 says once someone posts a trade wish (as in your example) then no further proposals in this turn are valid until this one has been accepted or counter-offered. But then I don't really see how it can refer to 'all previous valid proposals' since by definition there can only be one??? And 4 states all unaccepted trade proposals....but again, surely there can only be one and any counter-offers?

5 has me confused also. I realize some currencies my be on a simple scale such as orc testicles - you can't have a negative number of them because they are physical. But take points for example - if points exist on a negative to positive plane then I always have an infinite number of negative and positive points to give away. I see your point on midi-chlorians where you refer to 'dark' ones as a positive number of negative ones, but sticking to points since I can both receive and lose points whether I am positive or negative in total, then I can technically say that I possess sufficient quantity to make any offer. So for example, if I have -10 points I can offer 100 points which takes me to -110. It is not that I do not have any positive points because as I say they are all on the same line from -infinity to +infinity. I am not totally sure how to get around this - I thought for a minute you could say that you can only offer up a negative or positive value of currency depening on whether your current total of that currency is negative or positive, and you cannot offer more than the absolute value of your holding...but I am not sure that works with midi-chlorians.

I like the idea very much though! :)
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby Palin » 25 Mar 2014, 12:34

I like the idea. sd is right though - the wording needs some polishing.

Concerning the negative points, perhaps it should be clear in the rule that the lowest score a user can reach as the result of an exchange is 0 points?
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby Palin » 25 Mar 2014, 15:00

Two more questions:

1. When does the exchange take place? Immediately after the acceptance, at the end of the phase or at the end of the turn?
2. Is there any limit to the number of exchanges a user can initiate each turn/phase? Likewise, is there any limit to the number of exchanges a user can accept each turn/phase?
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby Pagane » 25 Mar 2014, 15:15

Can a proposed exchange be withdrawn? Can you deny someone's acceptance of your exchange?
For example, if Crunkus is at 180 points and I''m offering 20 points for 3 Demonic Tokens, can I specify that I will not do business with Crunkus(due to him winning the game if he accepts)?
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby Palin » 25 Mar 2014, 15:20

Pagane wrote:Can a proposed exchange be withdrawn? Can you deny someone's acceptance of your exchange?
For example, if Crunkus is at 180 points and I''m offering 20 points for 3 Demonic Tokens, can I specify that I will not do business with Crunkus(due to him winning the game if he accepts)?

According to the wording, (B.3) the acceptance is immediate. However, perhaps there should be an addition concerning provisional proposals?
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby pjkon » 25 Mar 2014, 15:34

YES/NO: Pagane WILL VOTE AYE FOR rule 311
It is better to have scs then allies, assuming something aproaching equal combat power in each

Your credibility with eliminated powers is irrelavant

Keep your allies happy enough that they stay allies

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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby connect4 » 25 Mar 2014, 16:21

You don't have the book. And actually it should be sd's proposal, no? As he was active after 310.

For that matter, ug would have the book again.
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Re: Nomic 5 Proposal 311: Tit for Tat

Postby super_dipsy » 25 Mar 2014, 16:36

connect4 wrote:And actually it should be sd's proposal, no? As he was active after 310.

That is something we have not defined I think. When a player goes inactive, they are removed from the roster. When a plyer comes back, where do they go on the roster? My assumption was at the bottom (so on that basis I would be initially on the bottom but then Palin would go below me. But then I realized that cannot work, because then I could get two goes in a round (make a proposal, go inactive, return and then go back at the bottom so I can have another go). But since we don;t keep the original roster order for posterity (you simply move people onto the inactive list) I am not sure what else to do?
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