Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

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Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Petunia » 11 Mar 2014, 00:10

Apologies if this is uncouth. I couldn't find any rules against commentary and by 116 it appears that I am within my rights to post a question to the group (although I suppose as a non-player it could be argued that I am not subject to the rules to begin with although down that road lies anarchy).

So. How much chaos would break loose if it were to be pointed out that the turn in which 304 was proposed has not yet ended?

Rule 301 wrote:Adjudication Phase

Any player may post the results for the round once the voting phase ends. That player must include whether the proposal passes or fails, and an updated scoreboard with all points awarded from that round. When that post is made, the turn ends, and the next turn begins.

By the implications of the main text of 301 taken together with the definition in 301.3.a. (copied above with my emphasis), to my reading, 'that post' was never made and so the turn never ended (see the link and full text of the erstwhile turn-ending post below).

I can't quite figure out how the subsequent drama of the turn in which 304 was proposed might affect this interpretation since it appears that a judgment was called for evidently erroneously, given in error, another judgment was made evidently properly, then overruled, and I'm not sure whether any of that implicitly force-starts the following turn or whether the fact that the turn in which 304 was proposed has never actually ended is going to cause any issues.

Although my interpretation certainly suggests that Pagane's initial ruling was actually requested and made properly, since Dipsy's turn had not ended at the time at which the disagreement arose (in fact still has not ended).

This then raises an interesting question as to the implications of the second clause of 212 and whether the implied consent of the group to begin the next turn in order to satisfy 212 should be able to be cross-applied to indirectly imply acceptance of the improper or insufficient 'ending' to the turn in which 304 was proposed as proper and sufficient. As written, clearly not, but I could see an argument being made that this should be understood to be the case 'for the good of the game.'

I can't see a way to profit from pointing any of this out otherwise I might have joined the game to do so.


Subject: Nomic 5 Proposal 304 - Stalin's Stamp (closed)

Crunkus wrote:Now that all votes have are in, I'll post the results:

The voting period has ended.

Connect4 - AYE, No vote on Stalin's Stamp
Crunkus - AYE, AYE on Stalin's Stamp (illegal vote)
Pagane - -AYE, No vote on Stalin's Stamp (illegal vote)
super_dipsy - AYE, No vote on Stalin's Stamp (ineligible)
Ugluk - 0 - NAY, NAY on Stalin's Stamp

Proposal 304, passes. 4 Ayes, 1 Nay. (4/5)
Among those eligible to vote for the Thing: Stalin's Stamp, there is one AYE, and one NAY. Stalin's Stamp is not created.

Having succeded in reaching a 3/4ths majority, Proposal 303 passes.

super-dipsy gains (4/5) * (304-291) = 12 points for votes cast on the proposal.
super-dipsy initiated a proposed thing, and lost the vote to get it created and loses 5 points under rule 303-K3 = -5
super-dipsy included the mention of at least narfable clause = 1

12-5+1 = +8 points total for super-dipsy

Ugluk is up.
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Re: Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Zoomzip » 11 Mar 2014, 04:03

All I do is read this, and then say "Why aren't you playing with us?" Because, yeah...

That being said, without judgement, I would argue that a results post counts. The "scoreboard" rule does not discuss the format such a post may make, so I would argue that as long as a post is on the board that deals with the scoring, it is sufficient.
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Re: Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Crunkus » 11 Mar 2014, 05:46

Good stuff, P.

Join the game. Seriously. Do it. Do it now. We're in a voting phase right now.

I'll certainly provide an updated scoreboard the next time I score a round. As the game progresses that will become progressively more important to avoid putting to much strain on the moderators when they update the official scoreboard.
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Re: Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Pagane » 11 Mar 2014, 16:41

Crunkus wrote:Good stuff, P.

Join the game. Seriously. Do it. Do it now. We're in a voting phase right now.


Zoomzip wrote:All I do is read this, and then say "Why aren't you playing with us?" Because, yeah...


Seconded. Or third-ed, rather. You will bring a lot of fun and intellect to the game.
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Re: Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Petunia » 11 Mar 2014, 16:47

This game requires a pretty steady commitment level over time that I'm not sure I can make. Right now I'm happy as a spectator. Maybe next week or the next time I take a break from Mafia.
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Re: Nomic 5 - question from a non-player

Postby Crunkus » 11 Mar 2014, 17:38

Petunia wrote:This game requires a pretty steady commitment level over time that I'm not sure I can make. Right now I'm happy as a spectator. Maybe next week or the next time I take a break from Mafia.


It's important to note that it's also quite flexible. If you miss a vote, you go inactive and can come back just as easily. It's not a commitment on par with a diplomacy game or mafia in my view. Sometimes rules can be changed to make it a bit more intensive, but you can always just go inactive or just be less competitive if that occurs. Further, you can vote against such measures. Right now, unless it's your turn, it comes down to a bit of reading, posting and an AYE or NAY most of the time.

If you have a bit of legislation pre-written, you don't even have to worry too much about your turn aside from the revision process in the proposal phase. I'd be happy to collaborate with you in pm and even write your legislation for you (evil grin) if things are busy leading up to your turn. What's more there are likely others that will as well...although you should always talk to me first, it goes without saying.

But of course, whenever you're ready. Though consider:

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