Nomic 5 Proposal 304 - Stalin's Stamp (closed)

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Nomic 5 Proposal 304 - Stalin's Stamp (closed)

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Feb 2014, 17:33

I propose the following change to rule 204. This is the final edit (1st March 08:48 GMT)

304. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote receives a three-fourths majority among the eligible voters. This rule is narfable.


Rule 204 previously stated
304. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote recieves a three-fourths majority among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.


NOTE:
Stalin's Stamp allows the holder to make the requirement for adoption a simple majority (>50%) whenever it is used.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Feb 2014, 17:53

I am announcing the creation of a Thing.

EDIT: 28/2 06:00 GMT - edited to prevent use on own proposal, to change the use cost to a debit rather than a credit
EDIT: 01/3 08:49 GMT - edited to change Stalin's Stamp to simply allow a rule to pass with a simple majority

Stalin's Stamp

Stalin’s Stamp bequeaths on the possessor (henceforth referred to as ‘Stalin’) the power to change the adoption criteria for the particular voting round to a simple majority.

At any time during the voting process of a proposal, Stalin may employ the stamp. To do so, Stalin must publish YOU’VE BEEN STAMPED in capitals and on its own line. Colours are optionally but neutral is not allowed and the font size must be the same as for the legal vote. This has the following effects:

1. The voting phase in which Stalin's Stamp is used will only require a simple majority to pass, overriding Rule 204 for the turn
2. Stalin loses 5 points for using the stamp

Stalin’s Stamp has other properties, as follows:

A Possession: Stalin’s stamp is owned by the proposer of the proposal immediately preceding the current one (or the last active player to propose)
B Flow:
1. When a new turn starts, Stalin’s Stamp passes to the active player with the most recent proposal prior to the current one.
2. At any time during a voting phase, if Stalin has not used the stamp then he can choose to sell it to to another player (including the current proposer) for an agreed number of points, transferred immediately if the agreement is made. The purchasing player must have a +ve number of points equal or greater to the purchase price. This form of transfer can only happen once in a voting round.
C Legacy: If the owner of Stalin’s Stamp becomes inactive, the new Stalin to take ownership of the stamp will be the last active player to make a proposal prior to the current one
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Feb 2014, 17:58

OK, some explanation. I think the general idea is hopefully clear, but I am not too sure I have got the details of the thingy right.

For example, I initially decided to say that if Stalin uses the Stamp then there is a 5 point DEDUCTION, not BONUS. Then I wondered if that was the right balance, or not. The idea is that someone might be really keen for the proposal to pass or not to pass, and I wanted to
a) give one player the enormous bargaining chip of being able to decide that unilaterally
b) introduce the idea that others might want to buy the privilege if they care enough (perhaps even starting a bidding war!)

I had also considered making the bidding process a way to simply get the current Stalin to use the stamp the way you want rather than actually buy the stamp, but I think this is better.

I am very open to refining and improving this. it has been a bit rushed because I am travelling and have limited internet access. Also, the formatting is rubbish. I happily give the owners of the rules the option of reformatting the final result!
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby fijikilo0 » 27 Feb 2014, 21:01

Sounds great, a real game changer.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby Ugluk » 27 Feb 2014, 21:55

Does this implementation of Narfability fit the model of Rule 302? I had thought that affecting Items changed the Rule itself, rather than superceded the language. But this is one interpretation.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby Pagane » 27 Feb 2014, 22:20

How does giving one player the ability to approve or disprove legislation help the game? Wouldn't it make it easier for lousy proposals to get passed and great ones to get shot down? How does a minority rule improve the game?

How does the proposer whose proposal is targeted by the Stamp get his proposal scored, whether it is passed or failed?

If the current proposer owns the Stamp, can he use it on his own proposal? If so, you're giving someone in that position the ability to insta-win.

for example:
Pagane wrote:Proposal 1000
Pagane is awarded 500 points, the title of Grand Moff, and is declared the winner of Nomic 5.

Pagane uses Stalin's Stamp to pass Proposal 1000.
Pagane is victorious!
Game over, folks, everybody go home.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby Ugluk » 27 Feb 2014, 22:59

And of course Dipsy awards himself the Stamp from the get-go.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby connect4 » 27 Feb 2014, 23:26

In addition to Pagane's point about how points are awarded to the proposer, there's also the potential for infinite loop. Hypothetical:

1) Play continues to my proposal. Stalin stamps me with a NAY. I gain Stalin's stamp.
2) Crunkus makes any proposal. I stamp AYE. Stamp stays with me.
3) Pagane makes any proposal. I stamp AYE. Stamp stays with me.
(insert a few more people)
4) Connect4 makes a game winning proposal. I stamp AYE. That's game.

So pretty much, this does provide a risk. I'll have to look into this a bit more to see a better way for the stamp to be used. You could prevent the owner from having the stamp, etc.

For the original proposal, I also wouldn't complain if the 75% mark stayed around longer. Leads to better legislation.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Feb 2014, 23:33

Good points. I will have to change the language that stalin cannot use the stamp on his own proposal for sure.

Pagane, the intention is to broaden the process of granting or kicking out rule changes. Players operatong in a bloc for example may be able to force through some rules by swapping around the stamp.

If we can't make the stamp work, i will back off to making rule 204 narfable and leave it at that. But i still feel there is something here.

I wont change the Thing until tomorrow morning my time to give time for other duscussions.
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Re: Nomiic 5 Proposal 304

Postby super_dipsy » 27 Feb 2014, 23:41

I shd have also said, as for scoring the stamped proposal that has not changed. All the stamp does is decide if the rule is adopted or not. If your proposal succeeds but only with one AYE, it is scored as such.

I had also thought about making the stamp pass on as soon as it is used, and i now remember that because i changed it, that was why i was going to make using it COST the user 5 points, not gain 5. So if you use it twice, you lose 10 pts, etc.. So i think i will also go back to the -5 points if you use the stamp.
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