Nomic 5 - Proposal 302 "Thingagenesis" (Passed)

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Nomic 5 - Proposal 302 "Thingagenesis" (Passed)

Postby Crunkus » 15 Feb 2014, 16:05

I propose to enact rule 302:

Current Proposed Form: v2.4 wrote:302. Thingagenesis

  1. In Nomic 5, there can be created a game relevant concept known as a Thing.
  2. Things will always have a name.
    • Please note that a Thing name does not need to include the word Thing.
  3. Things can create game relevant effects. These effects are understood by the properties of the Thing.
  4. If the effect of a Thing conflicts with the effects of another Thing, the Thing that was created first chronologically is considered to take priority.
  5. When the effect of a Thing conflicts with a rule, the rule has priority unless the rule specifically states that the entire rule or an aspect of that rule can be overruled potentially by a Thing.
    1. As a short hand, if it is desired for a portion of a rule to be subject to overruling by the effect of a Thing, this will be defined as narfing.
    2. Narfable is defined as a rule or a clause of a rule that can be overruled by the effect of a Thing.
    3. A rule clause that includes the phrase: "This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing." is considered narfable.
    4. A rule clause that specifically includes phrasing that would allow a Thing-based effect to potentially overrule it is considered narfable.
      • example phrasing: This rule is narfable by the effect of the Cowbell of Power or Ugluk's Steely Gaze.
    5. A rule clause that simply says: This clause is narfable. without a specific reference to an existing or non-existent Thing, is sufficient to render the clause narfable generally.
      1. It is acceptable to list the names of specific Things that can narf some aspect of a rule, or to say that a given clause can be narfed by Things generally.
  6. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of possession which ties it to one active player in the game. The property of possession must include a way to assign possession of the item upon its creation.
  7. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of flow which articulates rules by which it can legally change possession.
  8. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of legacy which articulates rules that govern what will happen to the Thing if the player possessing it becomes inactive.
  9. Thing creation can be initiated by the proposer during the proposal phase. This clause is narfable.
    1. To initiate the creation of a Thing, the creator must not have already initiated the creation of a Thing this turn, and must post to the proposal thread a post that includes:
    2. The name of the Thing on its own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional Thing initiation of creation is not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. This clause is narfable.
    3. A list of all the proposed properties of The Thing.
  10. If a Thing creation is initiated, the properties of a thing can be discussed during the proposal phase in a way the mirrors the discussion that surrounds the proposal of a rule. Thing properties may be altered by the proposer during the proposal phase. This is to be accomplished by editing the original initiation post for the Thing, in much the same way you would do when changing a rule proposal. This clause is narfable.
  11. During the Voting phase, any player who did not initiate the creation of the Thing being voted on who is also active may vote on the proposed creation of the Thing.
    1. Votes relevant to Thing creation must be cast on their own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional votes are not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. This clause is narfable.
        Acceptable text for votes are as follows:
        • AYE
        • NAY
        • ABSTAIN
          • ABSTAIN, in this context, is the published decision not to vote on the creation of the THING.
      1. A Thing is considered to be created if it ever achieves a three-fourths majority among the set of players who legally voted AYE or NAY on the creation of the Thing in question at the completion of the Voting phase of the turn in which its creation was initiated.
      2. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is successfully created, the proposer gains 5 points. This clause is narfable.
      3. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is not successfully created, the proposer loses 5 points. This clause is narfable.
      4. If someone votes AYE in the final tally for a successful Thing vote, they gain 2 points. This clause is narfable.
      5. If a Thing contains at least one example within its properties of an effect which would narf the effect of a rule, and the Thing is successfully created, the proposer gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
      6. If a rule change is successfully adopted that includes more than one narfable clause the proposer of that rule change gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
      7. A list of all existing Things, their creation dates, players in possession, and properties will be maintained in the Nomic 5 subforum.
      8. Things can be considered destroyed. A destroyed thing does not have a possessor and does not have properties. It should be removed from the list of existing Things in the Nomic 5 subforum.
      9. A destroyed Thing can be recreated in the same way that any other Thing can be created. There is no "memory" of destroyed Things.


    Current Proposed Form: v2.3 wrote:302. Thingagenesis

    1. In Nomic 5, there can be created a game relevant concept known as a Thing.
    2. Things will always have a name.
      • Please note that a Thing name does not need to include the word Thing.
    3. Things can create game relevant effects. This effects are understood by the properties of the Thing.
    4. If the effect of a Thing conflicts with the effects of another Thing, the Thing that was created first chronologically is considered to take priority.
    5. When the effect of a Thing conflicts with the a rule, the rule has priority unless the rule specifically states that the entire rule or an aspect of that rule can be overruled potentially by a Thing.
      1. As a short hand, if it is desired for a portion of a rule to be subject to overruling by the effect of a Thing, this will be defined as narfing.
      2. Narfable is defined as a rule or a clause of a rule that can be overruled by the effect of a Thing.
      3. If a rule specifies it can be narfed in some way, it must specify what it can be narfed by.
      4. A rule clause that includes the phrase: "This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing." is considered narfable.
      5. A rule clause that specifically includes phrasing that would allow a Thing-based effect to potentially overrule it is considered narfable.
        • example phrasing: This rule is narfable by the effect of the Cowbell of Power or Ugluk's Steely Gaze.
      6. A rule clause that simply says: This clause is narfable. without a specific reference to an existing or non-existent Thing, is sufficient to render the clause narfable generally.
        1. It is acceptable to list the names of specific Things that can narf some aspect of a rule, or to say that a given clause can be narfed by Things generally.
    6. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of possession which ties it to one active player in the game. The property of possession must include a way to assign possession of the item upon its creation.
    7. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of flow which articulates rules by which it can legally change possession.
    8. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of legacy which articulates rules that govern what will happen to the Thing if the player possessing it becomes inactive.
    9. Thing creation may only be initiated by the proposer during the proposal phase. This clause is narfable.
      1. To initiate the creation of a Thing, the creator must not have already initiated the creation of a Thing this turn, and must post to the proposal thread a post that includes:
      2. The name of the Thing on its own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional Thing initiation of creation is not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. This clause is narfable.
      3. A list of all the proposed properties of The Thing.
    10. If a Thing creation is initiated, the properties of a thing can be discussed during the proposal phase in a way the mirrors the discussion that surrounds the proposal of a rule. Thing properties may be altered by the proposer during the proposal phase. This is to be accomplished by editing the original initiation post for the Thing, in much the same way you would do when changing a rule proposal. This clause is narfable.
    11. During the Voting phase, any player who did not initiate the creation of the Thing being voted on who is also active may vote on the proposed creation of the Thing.
      1. Votes relevant to Thing creation must be cast on their own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional votes are not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. This clause is narfable.
          Acceptable text for votes are as follows:
          • AYE
          • NAY
          • ABSTAIN
            • ABSTAIN, in this context, is the published decision not to vote on the creation of the THING.
        1. A Thing is considered to be created if it ever achieves a three-fourths majority among the set of players who legally voted AYE or NAY on the creation of the Thing in question at the completion of the Voting phase of the turn in which its creation was initiated.
        2. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is successfully created, the proposer gains 5 points. This clause is narfable.
        3. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is not successfully created, the proposer loses 5 points. This clause is narfable.
        4. If someone votes AYE in the final tally for a successful Thing vote, they gain 2 points. This clause is narfable.
        5. If a Thing contains at least one example within its properties of an effect which would narf the effect of a rule, and the Thing is successfully created, the proposer gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
        6. If a rule change is successfully adopted that includes more than one narfable clause the proposer of that rule change gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
        7. A list of all existing Things, their creation dates, players in possession, and properties will be maintained in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        8. Things can be considered destroyed. A destroyed thing does not have a possessor and does not have properties. It should be removed from the list of existing Things in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        9. A destroyed Thing can be recreated in the same way that any other Thing can be created. There is no "memory" of destroyed Things.



      Proposed Form: v2.2 wrote:302. Thingagenesis
      1. In Nomic 5, there can be created a game relevant concept known as a Thing.
      2. Things will always have a name.
      3. Things can create game relevant effects. This effects are understood by the properties of the Thing.
      4. If the effect of a Thing conflicts with the effects of another Thing, the Thing that was created first chronologically is considered to take priority.
      5. When the effect of a Thing conflicts with the a rule, the rule has priority unless the rule specifically states that the entire rule or an aspect of that rule can be overruled potentially by a Thing.
        1. As a short hand, if it is desired for a portion of a rule to be subject to overruling by the effect of a Thing, this will be defined as narfing.
        2. Narfable is defined as a rule or a clause of a rule that can be overruled by the effect of a Thing.
        3. If a rule specifies it can be narfed in some way, it must specify what it can be narfed by.
        4. A rule clause that includes the phrase: "This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing." is considered narfable.
        5. A rule clause that specifically includes phrasing that would allow a Thing-based effect to potentially overrule it is considered narfable.
          • example phrasing: This rule is narfable by the effect of the Cowbell of Power or Ugluk's Steely Gaze.
        6. A rule clause that simply says: This clause is narfable. without a specific reference to an existing or non-existent Thing, is sufficient to render the clause narfable generally.
          1. It is acceptable to list the names of specific Things that can narf some aspect of a rule, or to say that a given clause can be narfed by Things generally.
      6. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of possession which ties it to one active player in the game. The property of possession must include a way to assign possession of the item upon its creation.
      7. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of flow which articulates rules by which it can legally change possession.
      8. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of legacy which articulates rules that govern what will happen to the Thing if the player possessing it becomes inactive.
      9. Thing creation can be initiated by the proposer during the proposal phase. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        1. To initiate the creation of a Thing, the creator must not have already initiated the creation of a Thing this turn, and must post to the proposal thread a post that includes:
        2. The name of the Thing on its own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional Thing initiation of creation is not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF.
        3. A list of all the proposed properties of The Thing.
      10. If a Thing creation is initiated, the properties of a thing can be discussed during the proposal phase in a way the mirrors the discussion that surrounds the proposal of a rule. Thing properties may be altered by the proposer during the proposal phase. This is to be accomplished by editing the original initiation post for the Thing, in much the same way you would do when changing a rule proposal. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
      11. During the Voting phase, any player who did not initiate the creation of the Thing being voted on who is also active may vote on the proposed creation of the Thing.
        1. Votes relevant to Thing creation must be cast on their own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional votes are not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. Acceptable text for votes are as follows:
          • AYE
          • NAY
          • ABSTAIN
            • ABSTAIN is the published decision not to vote on the creation of the THING.
        2. A Thing is considered to be created if it every achieves a three-fourths majority among the set of players who legally voted AYE or NAY on the creation of the Thing in question at the completion of the Voting phase of the turn in which its creation was initiated.
        3. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is successfully created, the proposer gains 5 points. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        4. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is not successfully created, the proposer loses 5 points. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        5. If someone votes AYE in the final tally for a successful Thing vote, they gain 2 points. This clause is narfable.
        6. If a Thing contains at least one example within its properties of an effect which would narf the effect of a rule, and the Thing is successfully created, the proposer gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
        7. If a rule change is successfully adopted that includes more than one narfable clause the proposer of that rule change gains an additional point. This clause is narfable.
        8. A list of all existing Things, their creation dates, players in possession, and properties will be maintained in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        9. Things can be considered destroyed. A destroyed thing does not have a possessor and does not have properties. It should be removed from the list of existing Things in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        10. A destroyed Thing can be recreated in the same way that any other Thing can be created. There is no "memory" of destroyed Things.



      Version 2.0 wrote:302. Thingagenesis

      1. In Nomic 5, there can be created a game relevant concept known as a Thing.
      2. Things will always have a name.
      3. Things can create game relevant effects. This effects are understood by the properties of the Thing.
      4. If the effect of a Thing conflicts with the effects of another Thing, the Thing that was created first chronologically is considered to take priority.
      5. When the effect of a Thing conflicts with the a rule, the rule has priority unless the rule specifically states that the entire rule or an aspect of that rule can be overruled potentially by a Thing.
        1. As a short hand, if it is desired for a portion of a rule to be subject to overruling by the effect of a Thing, this will be defined as narfing.
        2. If a rule specifies it can be narfed in some way, it must specify what it can be narfed by.
        3. A rule clause that includes the phrase: "This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing." is considered narfable.
        4. A rule clause that specifically includes phrasing that would allow a Thing-based effect to potentially overrule it is considered narfable.
          1. It is acceptable to list the names of specific Things that can narf some aspect of a rule, or to say that a given clause can be narfed by Things generally.
      6. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of possession which ties it to one active player in the game. The property of possession must include a way to assign possession of the item upon its creation.
      7. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of flow which articulates rules by which it can legally change possession.
      8. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of legacy which articulates rules that govern what will happen to the Thing if the player possessing it becomes inactive.
      9. Thing creation can be initiated by the proposer during the proposal phase. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        1. To initiate the creation of a Thing, the creator must not have already initiated the creation of a Thing this turn, and must post to the proposal thread a post that includes:
        2. The name of the Thing on its own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional Thing initiation of creation is not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF.
        3. A list of all the proposed properties of The Thing.
      10. If a Thing creation is initiated, the properties of a thing can be discussed during the proposal phase in a way the mirrors the discussion that surrounds the proposal of a rule. Thing properties may be altered by the proposer during the proposal phase. This is to be accomplished by editing the original initiation post for the Thing, in much the same way you would do when changing a rule proposal. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
      11. During the Voting phase, any player who did not initiate the creation of the Thing being voted on who is also active may vote on the proposed creation of the Thing.
        1. Votes relevant to Thing creation must be cast on their own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional votes are not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. Acceptable text for votes are as follows:
          • AYE
          • NAY
          • ABSTAIN
            • ABSTAIN is the published decision not to vote on the creation of the THING.
        2. A Thing is considered to be created if it every achieves a three-fourths majority among the set of players who legally voted AYE or NAY on the creation of the Thing in question at the completion of the Voting phase of the turn in which its creation was initiated.
        3. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is successfully created, the proposer gains 5 points. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        4. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is not successfully created, the proposer loses 5 points. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        5. If someone votes AYE in the final tally for a successful Thing vote, they gain 2 points.
        6. If a Thing contains at least one example within its properties of an effect which would narf the effect of a rule, and the Thing is successfully created, the proposer gains an additional point.
        7. If a rule change is successfully adopted that includes more than one narfable clause the proposer of that rule change gains an additional point.
        8. A list of all existing Things, their creation dates, players in possession, and properties will be maintained in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        9. Things can be considered destroyed. A destroyed thing does not have a possessor and does not have properties. It should be removed from the list of existing Things in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        10. A destroyed Thing can be recreated in the same way that any other Thing can be created. There is no "memory" of destroyed Things.


      Original Version wrote:302. Thingagenesis

      1. In Nomic 5, there can be created a game relevant concept known as a Thing.
      2. Things will always have a name.
      3. Things can create game relevant effects. This effects are understood by the properties of the Thing.
      4. If the effect of a Thing conflicts with the effects of another Thing, the Thing that was created first chronologically is considered to take priority.
      5. When the effect of a Thing conflicts with the a rule, the rule has priority unless the rule specifically states that the entire rule or an aspect of that rule can be overruled potentially by a Thing.
        1. As a short hand, if it is desired for a portion of a rule to be subject to overruling by the effect of a Thing, this will be defined as narfing.
        2. If a rule specifies it can be narfed in some way, it must specify what it can be narfed by.
          1. It is acceptable to list the names of specific Things that can narf some aspect of a rule, or to say that a given clause can be narfed by Things generally.
      6. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of possession which ties it to one active player in the game. The property of possession must include a way to assign possession of the item upon its creation.
      7. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of flow which articulates rules by which it can legally change possession.
      8. A Thing can have different properties, but always must have the property of legacy which articulates rules that govern what will happen to the Thing if the player possessing it becomes inactive.
      9. Thing creation can be initiated by the proposer during the proposal phase. This clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        1. To initiate the creation of a Thing, the creator must post to the proposal thread a post that includes:
        2. The name of the Thing on its own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional Thing initiation of creation is not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF.
        3. A list of all the proposed properties of The Thing.
      10. If a Thing creation is initiated, the properties of a thing can be discussed during the proposal phase in a way the mirrors the discussion that surrounds the proposal of a rule. Thing properties may be altered by the proposer during the proposal phase. The clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
      11. During the Voting phase, active players other than the proposer may vote on the proposed creation of the Thing.
        1. Votes relevant to Thing creation must be cast on their own line, in blue color and at least size 125; conditional votes are not allowed. Blue will be defined to be the color #0000FF. Acceptable text for votes are as follows:
          • AYE
          • NAY
          • ABSTAIN
        2. A Thing is considered to be created if it every achieves a three-fourths majority of eligible Thing creation voters (note that the proposer is not an eligible voter).
        3. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is successfully created, the proposer gains 5 points. The clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        4. If the proposer initiates the creation of a Thing during an active turn and it is not successfully created, the proposer loses 5 points. The clause can be narfed by the properties of a Thing.
        5. A list of all existing Things, their creation dates, players in possession, and properties will be maintained in the Nomic 5 subforum.
        6. Things can be considered destroyed. A destroyed thing does not have a possessor and does not have properties. It should be removed from the list of existing Things in the Nomic 5 subforum.
      Last edited by Crunkus on 22 Feb 2014, 02:04, edited 9 times in total.
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Ugluk » 15 Feb 2014, 17:39

      Some suggestions:
      Clarify who is considered an eligible creation voter.
      Incentivise Thing AYE votes.
      Incentivise rule narfing.
      Clarify how ABSTAIN affects the overall vote.
      Clarify the impact of eligible voters not voting.
      If multimple Things are proposed in the same phase, how does that affect voting for Things?
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Pagane » 15 Feb 2014, 18:54

      Is it possible for multiple Things to be proposed during one round? If not, then language to that effect needs to be added.

      Out of curiosity, Crunkus, what Things are you thinking of adding to the game?
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Crunkus » 15 Feb 2014, 19:14

      Ugluk wrote:Some suggestions:
      Clarify who is considered an eligible creation voter.
      Incentivise Thing AYE votes.
      Incentivise rule narfing.
      Clarify how ABSTAIN affects the overall vote.
      Clarify the impact of eligible voters not voting.
      If multimple Things are proposed in the same phase, how does that affect voting for Things?


      Pagane wrote:Is it possible for multiple Things to be proposed during one round? If not, then language to that effect needs to be added.

      Out of curiosity, Crunkus, what Things are you thinking of adding to the game?


      Thanks for all this. Keep it coming. Let's make this as collaborative as possible. I'm really just setting the groundwork for all of us right now to have something to use later on. I'd love to see this game careen off into completely different game space this time around. I'm going to need the help.

      What Things was I thinking of adding to the game? To be honest I hadn't even considered it yet. If I had I'd have probably given myself first crack at it by setting someone besides the proposer as the person able to initially initiate Thing creation. Although it seems sort of natural to nerf that and create a Thing that governs who does that sort of thing at some point.

      I'm going to think about some amendments to reflect what was offered, I'd like some other voices even if it is just to agree/disagree with what has already been said.
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Crunkus » 15 Feb 2014, 19:46

      I've changed the proposal to accommodate the issues brought up. I've also for simplicity created language that makes it clear only one Thing creation can be initiated per turn.

      Feedback continues to be sought. Let's make this as robust and useful as possible.
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby connect4 » 15 Feb 2014, 19:57

      Possible acceptable items to create:
      Cowbell of power
      The Red Revolver
      Pink Elephant
      Fuzzy Dice

      Unacceptable item(s):
      Antimatter of any form
      Moxley's doppleganglion

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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Ugluk » 15 Feb 2014, 22:27

      And please no Iocane powder. :roll:
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Pagane » 15 Feb 2014, 22:31

      Ugluk wrote:And please no Iocane powder. :roll:


      I've had my fill of iocane lately, thanks.
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Crunkus » 15 Feb 2014, 22:55

      Version 2.1 up.

      I defined narfable explicitly, and made a couple more clauses narfable.
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      Re: Nomic 5 - Proposal 302

      Postby Crunkus » 15 Feb 2014, 22:55

      I can't wait to see what you guys do with this.
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