The Versailles Tournament Rules & Sign-ups

TD: sinnybee; Assistant TD: mr bump

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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby GENPershing » 21 Feb 2014, 19:10

59 confirm people!! That's insane, this is going to be one hell of a tournament.

Good job sinny on organizing the event. :D
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby numberwang1 » 21 Feb 2014, 21:20

Id like to join!
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Re: The Versailles Tournament - Logistics

Postby socratease » 21 Feb 2014, 22:08

Not sure if you want posts on specifics yet, but a thought regarding logistics / time demands occurs.

Game B of 1st phase was originally planned to start just 4-6 days after Game A. Even with 28 players, one game might not even move if delayed by 1st turn re-set before Game B begins. Now with so many players, the chance of NMRs goes way up, and several Games A might actually have not moved when Game B begins.

A greater issue might be time demands on the players, which might also inadvertently increase the chances of NMRs or games going to whoever can spare the real time, not necessarily the better players. Unlike Ancient Med (4 powers with whom one negotiates) or Classic (6 negotiations), Versailles can have 2 x 12 sets of simultaneous negotiations demanding attention (24 total).

With both games at once, this is potentially 48 simultaneous negotiations, the equivalent of 12 simultaneous Ancient Med or 8 Classic games.

This is not presented as an argument against keeping all games with full negotiations! Definitely keep that feature, but maybe consider more of a wait before Games B begin.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby jimmygrimble » 21 Feb 2014, 22:36

I'd be keen.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby valent » 22 Feb 2014, 03:50

socratease wrote:Not sure if you want posts on specifics yet, but a thought regarding logistics / time demands occurs.

Game B of 1st phase was originally planned to start just 4-6 days after Game A. Even with 28 players, one game might not even move if delayed by 1st turn re-set before Game B begins. Now with so many players, the chance of NMRs goes way up, and several Games A might actually have not moved when Game B begins.

A greater issue might be time demands on the players, which might also inadvertently increase the chances of NMRs or games going to whoever can spare the real time, not necessarily the better players. Unlike Ancient Med (4 powers with whom one negotiates) or Classic (6 negotiations), Versailles can have 2 x 12 sets of simultaneous negotiations demanding attention (24 total).

With both games at once, this is potentially 48 simultaneous negotiations, the equivalent of 12 simultaneous Ancient Med or 8 Classic games.

This is not presented as an argument against keeping all games with full negotiations! Definitely keep that feature, but maybe consider more of a wait before Games B begin.


Yea. What he said. And maybe consider slower deadlines, a separate Ambassador-only tourney, and/or reducing enrollment by having players make a commitment or reaffirming their interest.

I guess the addition of Versailles to the site was a good decision and an effort that really paid off.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby sinnybee » 22 Feb 2014, 07:50

valent wrote:And maybe consider slower deadlines, a separate Ambassador-only tourney, and/or reducing enrollment by having players make a commitment or reaffirming their interest.

Done and done and done.
My OP already explains that I'll be asking for deadline preference and my update says I'll be PMing with-in a week.
I've looked over most of the signed-up player stats--I'm okay with the couple players with 1/8 (12.5%) ranked surrenders, but the 3 players (of those I've looked over) with... it was like 23% and 32% and 34% will be put on only if space allows or on the reserve list. I'm not sure I like the Diplomat/Ambassador seperation though--I think I'd rather have someone fairly new with a perfect record, than someone with about 32% ranked surrenders, even though the first is a Diplomat and the later an Ambassador.
Yeah, I will PM an agreement, that will ask for a commitment to avoid surrender and such, in addition to confirming interest.

I've been thinking about this tournament plenty, wish all my thoughts were written out... or maybe I don't... perhaps I've even said too much in this post... perhaps best if I don't post details until they have been fully thought over. The concerns of socratease have also already been considered.
Thank you so much for the feedback, though.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament - Logistics

Postby sinnybee » 22 Feb 2014, 08:44

Nevermind :), I'll post more.

socratease wrote:Not sure if you want posts on specifics yet, but a thought regarding logistics / time demands occurs.

Game B of 1st phase was originally planned to start just 4-6 days after Game A. Even with 28 players, one game might not even move if delayed by 1st turn re-set before Game B begins. Now with so many players, the chance of NMRs goes way up, and several Games A might actually have not moved when Game B begins.

Yeah, 4-6, with more than one 4-6 day tournament delay due to deadline options making 2+ groups of Game B start times.
Unless there has been a change/fix, super_dipsy said 1st turn NMR resets are unfortunately not working for Versailles games.
I'm thinking March 5* for 3/1/1 and/or 2/2/2 Game B starts, March 11* for all Game A starts (2/1/1), March 15* for 2/1/1 Game B starts, and March 19* for 1/1/1 Game B starts (if that deadline is allowed).
* - give or take a couple days.
No need to think about all this too much though, until I get deadline preference responses. I know that these will be two concurrent tournament games, which is why I chose 2/1/1, the slowest of the 4 most popular Versailles deadline settings (as shown in my OP--bottom-half of green font section).

socratease wrote:A greater issue might be time demands on the players, which might also inadvertently increase the chances of NMRs or games going to whoever can spare the real time, not necessarily the better players. Unlike Ancient Med (4 powers with whom one negotiates) or Classic (6 negotiations), Versailles can have 2 x 12 sets of simultaneous negotiations demanding attention (24 total).

With both games at once, this is potentially 48 simultaneous negotiations, the equivalent of 12 simultaneous Ancient Med or 8 Classic games.

This is not presented as an argument against keeping all games with full negotiations! Definitely keep that feature, but maybe consider more of a wait before Games B begin.

Yeah, I understand the math, socratease (though again, I do appreciate the feedback).
I would personally not join this tournament as a player if someone else were directing it; when I play my next game of Diplomacy, it will probably be 5/2/3 long deadlines of a Versailles game (and even then, just the one game of Diplomacy).
However, the numbers also show that players prefer fast deadlines, even for Versailles. Also, I don't want this tournament to last more than ~6 months if possible, so as to avoid players becoming unavailable or less interested.
Also, players signed-up here seem to have quite a low amount of NMRs.

If someone doesn't think they can keep up with 3/1/1 or 2/2/2 Game B deadlines and 2/1/1 Game A deadlines starting ~6 days later, they unfortunately should consider dropping this tournament before it starts.

I will continue to try my best to do what I think is best for the majority of sign-ups and will pay close attention to the responses I will receive from the PM(s) I will be sending out.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament - Logistics

Postby socratease » 22 Feb 2014, 09:37

sinnybee wrote:Unless there has been a change/fix, super_dipsy said 1st turn NMR resets are unfortunately not working for Versailles games.
I'm thinking March 5* for 3/1/1 and/or 2/2/2 Game B starts, March 11* for all Game A starts (2/1/1), March 15* for 2/1/1 Game B starts, and March 19* for 1/1/1 Game B starts (if that deadline is allowed).
* - give or take a couple days.
No need to think about all this too much though, until I get deadline preference responses. I know that these will be two concurrent tournament games, which is why I chose 2/1/1, the slowest of the 4 most popular Versailles deadline settings (as shown in my OP--bottom-half of green font section).
...Also, players signed-up here seem to have quite a low amount of NMRs.


Yes, I suppose you'd have to manually reset (or pause for replacement) any games if 1st turn NMRs were an issue, but it sounds like that won't be a problem.

I thought the generous 2/1/1 deadlines were well-thought out and presented. 1/1/1 would also be fine (also more popular). Maybe allow the Games A to get past Spring 2nd year so the hurly-burly of the widespread early negotiations have settled down before Games B begin? For 2/1/1 that would need, what, ~12-14 days, for 1/1/1, maybe 6-8 days?

So I'm talking about an additional week (+ a few days more if 2/1/1) for a 6-month tournament.

sinnybee wrote:However, the numbers also show that players prefer fast deadlines, even for Versailles. Also, I don't want this tournament to last more than ~6 months if possible, so as to avoid players becoming unavailable or less interested.


Sensible.

sinnybee wrote:I will continue to try my best to do what I think is best for the majority of sign-ups and will pay close attention to the responses I will receive from the PM(s) I will be sending out.


Sounds good, and thanks for organizing it all.
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby Darkshade » 22 Feb 2014, 22:07

Hey sinnybee,

I just want to let you know that I will unfortunately not be able to make this tournament. Versailles is a lot of effort and communication and I will not have that time come March. I have a number of other commitments this year.

I will probably follow it though. Good job organizing this. From the looks of it, it's going to be great!
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Re: The Versailles Tournament

Postby gislason » 23 Feb 2014, 01:57

Sinnybee,

I am in the same position as Darkshade. Sadly the tournament will start just as I leave for my family vacation, so internet will be spotty at best.

Sadly, I'll have to drop out. But thank you for organizing this, I think everyone will have a lot of fun. :D
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