Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Buachaille » 16 Feb 2015, 23:14

Thanks for the insight PB. You make a good point.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby WHSeward » 16 Feb 2015, 23:24

Pb10gon wrote:There is a serious real lesson to be learned here, and I am looking at straight at the PureDip Elite Tournament here. This tournament was spoiled by being able to identify each other AND by knowing the points achieved to date (and thereby the points needed relative to the other players). If we had gone into the final either not knowing the points, or better still, all equal, the final game would have been a proper, straight one.
This in in no way intended to be a criticism of the organisers. It is a plea to learn from a clear mistake. You live & learn.


Don't want to speak too much for rick, but my reading of the Pure Dip rules leads me to believe this problem is resolved in a different way. The final table stands alone and the final score is not a function of prior rounds. You just play for the best result you can on the last board.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Pb10gon » 17 Feb 2015, 00:15

Charlie withdrew from the versaille final having experienced the semis. He thought through the Elite tournament rules with that experience in mind. I think he has got it right. Let's prove it so and make future tournaments repeat success.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby poorfool » 17 Feb 2015, 01:32

Thanks Pb, good insight.
Still, all the 7 players in the final had the same rules and the same tools, that made the game fair.
Even the paradox of USSR winning with 1 center did not prevent Poland, Italy or France winning.
Actually, USSR won because Poland had already accepted the draw before attempting to solo.
I have seen things like this happen in games before, it doesn't take from a fair and great game :o
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Major B » 17 Feb 2015, 15:10

Pb10gon wrote:I think it about time that the end of this game was explained. Not least of all to MajorB as USSR who will be genuinely surprised to have won the tournament.


PB, thanks for explaining the rest of the story. No one was more surprised than I was when you proposed the 4-way draw.

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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby SaltySailor » 17 Feb 2015, 16:26

Quick question about the final position... Why did ownership of Oslo not switch to Poland from France, as the game ended on the build phase and the Polish army in Oslo had possession? It does not affect the winner MajorB, or second place Mozarella, but third place would shift from Poorfool to Pb10gon (I think).

That aside, as a competitor in the tournament, I was disappointed by the way the final game played out. Despite the "mathematics" of the tournament, I expected to see a game played with passion and expertise in the spirit of the game, not against an algorithm. I personally do not think it is the spirit of the game for one participant to decide who will win the tournament and protect the remaining SC of that choice to enforce his decision.

After a winner has been crowned, the debate over who one thinks "should" have won is a fun conversation in the pubs/bars for almost any sport. Thorntonian's incredible accomplishment of 3 solos out of 5 games leading up to the final will be hard for any competitor to repeat. In a game where the solo is the true objective, he got 3 where nobody else got more than 1 and three competitors at the final table had none at all. Mozarella's dominance and growth potential in the final makes him a candidate for others to back. If Russia had lost its last SC, Moz would have been the winner officially (again, I think, not sure).

At any rate, this was like watching the last Formula 1 race of the year, where one driver decides who he thinks should win the Driver of the Year and everyone just agreeing and quitting the race in the middle instead of racing it out to the finish even if the odds of upset dwindle.

If the math was the only consideration, professional athletes would never risk their multimillion dollar pro salaries by competing in the Olympics and risking career ending injury. World Cup competitors would play at half speed to protect their professional salaries as well.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Pb10gon » 17 Feb 2015, 18:20

Its very fair to say that Salty. You werent there though at the time. If you had been then you too would have been working out the maths of every move too.
I could have eliminated Major B but decided to hold him hostage, mainly because I have never heard of it being done before. Then the 3 remaining ones could have danced around each other for a long while, or more likely until one or more just gave up. As one achieved a winning position the other 2 would have to change that, and a couple of centres gives a different one of us a winning position & the other 2 would have to change that. There is no stalemate line to be found. There is no natural result. Just a manufactured, negotiated one.
In this case I made an argument to Mozz & to PF in the game that the result, whichever way it went now, would be arbitrary. A result would have to be a choice not a fought one. TE had gone by then so he could not reign. MB had the best score (ahead of TE) going in to the final & if the result should be a settlement then why should the 3 of us not settle for MB? It wasn't so much my choice as our resignation & a statement about the failure of the final.
We all only wanted a straight fight. But you dont get one when you dont start even. Nobody is more disappointed than I am. Here endeth the lesson.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby JonS » 22 Feb 2015, 07:12

To end on a more positive note however - I don't want people to think the game was manufactured from S31, or that it wasn't hard fought. This was a mostly great game, with seven really engaged, thoughtful players. Everybody deserved to be there, and it showed through during the game. (Except I guess technically me! I didn't deserve to be there. Eighth seed and all. But oh well...)

And to Buachaille's point - this tournament lasted a year! With 77 players and 31 games played! That's an incredible achievement, both by Sinny for organizing, and by the community for participating.

It would've been nice to see the final end in a more decisive manner, but it wasn't a listless or predetermined game by any means.

Really, I think once PB and I decided to stab Alman, it was pretty much all downhill from there...

Anyway, glad I got the opportunity to play in the final, and in the tournament.

Thanks Sinny. Thanks fellow finalists. Congrats Major B.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Alman » 22 Feb 2015, 07:23

JonS wrote:Really, I think once PB and I decided to stab Alman, it was pretty much all downhill from there...


How could I not appreciate such insight and wisdom! :? ;)

It was a good game, and I really enjoyed great communication and a lot of fun. I would play any of these guys again, even Jon and PB! :D Really, a fun time and a big THANK YOU to Sinny for setting the whole thing up.
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Re: Hey look, I wrote another one! (PDVT)

Postby Mozzarella » 27 Feb 2015, 18:57

Although the last phase was more like a math exercise, I really enjoyed the game as well.
Furthermore, I agree with most that has been said in this thread.

By the way, is there already an official result? I want to check if my calculations were correct ;-)
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