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Re: 1800: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 07:02
by VaeVictis
Borogrove,

Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I have a tendency to be overly defensive, so none of my crankiness is a reflection on you or your comments.

I also agree with you about Spain. I think Spain is well placed and will make for interesting play.


Jayahr,

I know what you mean; if I could fit Bavaria, Saxony, Portugal, Sweden, and other minor powers I would, but alas the board is too small and without proper opportunities for so many nations! I guess General Bernadotte will simply have to wait ten years or until this conflict is over to assume is title!

As a fellow student of history I invite you to join the test game (and full game should it prove bug free) or to simply observe and comment when all is said and done. Either way, your input and everyone else's is welcome and appreciated.

Re: 1800: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 07:16
by Borogrove
I look forward to the test, I am particularly interested in how well England will do considering that it has more units than centres and is quite spread out, Norway will possibly get Iceland and probably encroach on the British mainland...

I figure that England will likely open to the North Sea and the North Atlantic. If it doesn't get Iceland with the north atlantic there could be some interesting convoy options possible depending on what Gibraltar does.

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 21:14
by VaeVictis
The rules have been updated for the test game.

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 23 Sep 2013, 01:30
by VaeVictis
The rules have been clarified and updated, again.

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 21 Oct 2013, 05:30
by VaeVictis
Comments on the map revisions:

- Tunisia and Syria have been added to give Sicily more of a chance at securing and holding Tripolitania.
- The Mediterranean sea spaces have been reshuffled to assist Sicily in holding its own and prevent Sicily from falling prey too easily to surrounding powers.
- Apulia has been added to Sicily so Naples doesn't border Adriatic.
- Madrid no longer borders the Mediterranean and now borders the Atlantic. This will serve to increase the intensity between Spain and Britain while refocusing Spain's attention away from a one dimensional approach to inevitably attacking Sicily or southern France.
- Prussia has been made a three center major power and Russian spaces have been rearranged to adjust for the change. Prussia seemed too easy a target for surrounding major powers and a third center would help to stabilize her position without becoming too powerful.
- A new clause to the additional home supply centers for minor powers has been added to designate fixed supply centers. They are as follows: Portugal (Spain), Sweden (Denmark), Egypt (Ottoman Empire), Papal States (Sicily).

Any thoughts about these revisions? Any suggestions that would better serve map balance?

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 21 Oct 2013, 16:06
by Borogrove
VaeVictus wrote:Original Map
Image

Revised Map
Image



I think Naples should be kept as it was and should start with a fleet not an army.

The croatia/bosnia provinces may need to be changed slightly, maybe Croatia should touch Greece?

I'm perplexed about a few decisions... Why did you alter Madrid? What is going on with the Celtic sea?

Your choices in regards to Prussia seem pretty good however. I think it needed some help... Sicily though was a strong country though which just had the misfortune of being targeted by everyone who could attack it.

I'm not sure if weakening Turkey in the way you did was a great idea, being able to bounce Russia and get Egypt was a great way of keeping Russia in check. It is looking good though, I'd like to see what the other players think. Maybe start Russia with an army in Sevastopol and keep Syria?

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 25 Oct 2013, 17:46
by Stanislaw
I like most of the changes however I don't feel Madrid should border the MAO, nor should Spain have two fleets. I feel like Spain was fine how it was and didn't need a change. If you want to make more potential for Spanish/English conflict make the MAO border the channel again and maybe get rid of the Bay of Biscay.

The Tunisia/Syria addition was defiantly needed so that's good.

Overall looking pretty good. I think it's almost reached game ready point.

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 25 Oct 2013, 19:10
by Gooderian
what is the new prussian center? breslau?

(unit is covering up the SC marker)

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 25 Oct 2013, 19:26
by bindlestiff
As one who recently tested Spain, I would recommend restoring Asturias, but agree Madrid should be a land-locked province, and an army should start there. I agree with the other changes.

Re: Napoleonic: Empires and Coalitions

PostPosted: 27 Oct 2013, 09:32
by VaeVictis
First off, my apologies for the delay. I was away last week and took a little break from Dip.

Borogrove wrote:I think Naples should be kept as it was and should start with a fleet not an army.

The croatia/bosnia provinces may need to be changed slightly, maybe Croatia should touch Greece?

Your choices in regards to Prussia seem pretty good however. I think it needed some help... Sicily though was a strong country though which just had the misfortune of being targeted by everyone who could attack it.

I'm not sure if weakening Turkey in the way you did was a great idea, being able to bounce Russia and get Egypt was a great way of keeping Russia in check. It is looking good though, I'd like to see what the other players think. Maybe start Russia with an army in Sevastopol and keep Syria?


I choose to add Apulia because I wanted Sicily to be two spaces away from every foreign power. I realize that your observation has been that Sicily is very strong, but I am not entirely convinced. I think that it has potential, but is too easily destroyed by the surrounding powers and has to contend with as many as four nations.

Could you elaborate on why it would be a good idea to change Croatia/Bosnia? I am not rejecting this idea, I simply would like to know your reasoning.


mambam14 wrote:what is the new prussian center? breslau?

(unit is covering up the SC marker)


Yes.


Borogrove wrote:I'm perplexed about a few decisions... Why did you alter Madrid? What is going on with the Celtic sea?

Stanislaw wrote:I like most of the changes however I don't feel Madrid should border the MAO, nor should Spain have two fleets. I feel like Spain was fine how it was and didn't need a change. If you want to make more potential for Spanish/English conflict make the MAO border the channel again and maybe get rid of the Bay of Biscay.

The Tunisia/Syria addition was defiantly needed so that's good.

Overall looking pretty good. I think it's almost reached game ready point.

bindlestiff wrote:As one who recently tested Spain, I would recommend restoring Asturias, but agree Madrid should be a land-locked province, and an army should start there. I agree with the other changes.


Madrid was changed to allow Spain an easier route to attack Britain. As it stands now, I believe that Spain will have only one option: to attack in the Mediterranean. Spain currently has no logical avenue to attack Britain in less than 5 turns (not accounting for Portugal, but by the time Portugal is an additional center, Britain will likely have the strategic upper hand). Celtic Sea is an extension of Irish Sea to cover Ireland and English Channel from a Spanish attack from the Atlantic, thereby making defense for both Britain and Spain a little easier.

The reason I would change it is from experience in another game I have engineered with Spain. In 1740, Spain was made in the exact same fashion as the original map for NEC. It faired well until it was stabbed by France and then Britain. The French stab was natural and showed signs of good fluidity in the board, but Spain was powerless to stop/preempt an attack by Britain. Spain's lack of an Atlantic port leaves it at the mercy and good graces of the British player who may or may not choose to use Spain to his advantage. With an Atlantic port, Spain stands a good chance to defend itself while also leaving a door open for action against the British Isles.

I also believe the Spanish fleet in Madrid makes for an interesting first turn dynamic between Britain and Spain, much like the situation between F Brest and F Gibraltar in 1900.

These are just my thoughts and not concrete decisions. It could simply be ivory tower thinking and additional feedback on why it shouldn't be changed would be appreciated. Please tell me your ideas since I want to get the near impossible Anglo-Spanish dynamic correct.