General Domestic Issues

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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby musashisamurai » 05 Aug 2018, 01:50

Would anyone be interested in a Reverie role play in Pacifica? Y'all could each play as a house or nobility or some invitee, and within reason, I could have said families or politicians continue their influence based on how you act for decades to come.

For those aren't aware, Reverie is like a 3 month long event held every 4 years or more wherein all the noble houses return to my capital and the monarch holds a Outer Council with all noble houses (mirroring the Inner Council with a small select few Great Houses and officials held more frequently to run the government). Houses negotiate with each other, present to the monarch cases and appeals, and there are other social events held at the same including the Pacifican Olympics. Although a peaceful event, there are also occasional bloodsports presentations and even sanctioned duels between nobility and their champions.

Alternatively, if people can promise not to just wave their dicks around (sorry for the language) it could be a spy role play because I do imagine every nation is hiding spies within the masses of tourists and visitors to the capital in this time period.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Aug 2018, 02:01

musashisamurai wrote:eh, I'd say that Patriot Serum definitely doesn't hurt nor does your massive spy structure-secret police. Rampant nationalism and secret police are both hallmarks of authoritarian governments, and to some extent, the end result of any government without a strong democratic/republican defense, institutions that secure the liberty of their people such as unions and court systems that could veto any overreaching government action. Maybe you haven't explicitly GM'ed authoritarianism into your people, but you've definitely made them more susceptible to it.


I’m not arguing I’m not authoritarian - I am. But that’s more to do with the military conflict in the civil war and the SSC than PS. PS was part of a functioning democracy for a long time.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Aug 2018, 02:02

Also, up for reverie and prefer it to spies
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby kingpie3 » 05 Aug 2018, 03:58

Subotai45 wrote:So... that's not quite true. Tech descriptions in question:

HFPE - Sun of May
Future Argentines will have patriotism genetically programmed into them. How? Similar to Murderfiend, they will receive happy chemicals to their brain when they see the national symbols of Argentina. This modification will be added during pregnancy. From a young age, they will associate Argentina with happiness. Used to being happy, if anyone invades, and say, takes down our flags, they now have a very large, angry population to try to control.

Patriot Serum - Really HFPE - Continuing out work on Sun of May. Patriot Serum will be far more subtle, with an increased effectiveness and reduced noticeability. We're also going to stick a slight "yay Venus" trigger in there.

(there was a third that turned the two Argentine-centric policies into one more applicable for unified Venus - don't recall the name)

So there's nothing in here that explicitly enforces authoritarian tendencies. It does cause a strong nationalist bent, I won't deny that. But in its conception, it was more to create a restless defensive population in case of invasion rather than anything else. Patriot Serum modified that somewhat, but it's clear from the tech descriptions that SoM/PS are, if anything, engines for resistence rather than a tranquilizer to keep people docile. It riles folks up when the country is threatened, and adds a base level of contentment, but there's nothing in here about supporting authoritarian governments.

Now, that has been the MO of (united) Venus, but it isn't necessarily due to the GMs. We could just as easily have a highly patriotic democracy, rather than the monarchy we have now. And we have had that in the past, to different extents. Argentina, under which all of this was researched, was a legitimate democracy (by PPL definition, not by UMC, due to our capitalism likely disqualifying us), and Venus could be again.

Basically, in conclusion, we may be considered monsters for a variety of reasons, but we haven't GMed authoritarianism into Venus. They're compelled to love their country, by DNA, but have nothing that makes them love the system under which the country is governed, which is why we periodically have massive referenda that either institute or abolish the monarchy or federalism, for example (revolution, of course, is clamped down on, and discouraged by SoMPS). We're still perfectly good targets for criticism, but the specific bad things we're accused of aren't true (although you can continue to claim this, IC).


IC Announcment: Patriot Serum, Sun of May, are real (insert description of what they do). Everyone on Venus is ok with this - keeps the country together and makes us happy. Off-world reactions are interesting, but will not change policies or genomes.


There are certainly other factors that go into Venus being authoritarian. But manipulating people's brain chemistry compounds it. They'll support whatever they feel is in the best interest of the country, especially when the government tells them so IMO. Especially when there is a controlled social climate that's ethnonationalist, geared for war, and has historically said others aren't to be trusted. And when they're engineered to be more "content" with the way the country goes.

So while the mods don't explicitly encourage authoritarianism in and of themselves, they entrench it, which makes no fundamental difference. An authoritarian system is in a unique advantage to take advantage of a population that extremely loves its country and is very much beholden to their government. Besides that, the very act of a government secretly bend people's minds is authoritarian, no matter the system. Because that's probably the broadest overreach a government can perform.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Aug 2018, 05:20

Fair cop. More just figured I'd clear up a possible misconception that Venusians see themselves as oppressed or such (they're quite happy) - didn't expect to convince you that it's a good system of governance after all! The idea is to be a radically different culture, not convert you all to mine. I expect this culture to be durable, although I'm generally less set on the actual form of government, and even less constant on economic systems.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby beadsman » 05 Aug 2018, 06:17

Oh yeah. I think I forgot to actually, officially, declare war on the Cooperative.

But yeah, Cyon declares war on the Cooperative. It saddens me deeply to have to go to war against such an advanced, noble, nation. The Cooperative rose from the ashes of a once-great people, Sybus. They are a nation with which we share many common values. They are inspiring. Sadly, the Cooperative chose to declare war on Asteria and the PPL, of which we are a part. Asteria is our ally, and we will defend that nation with all our power. We urge the Cooperative to cease their crusade against Asteria, and we will gladly pay down our weapons

Sadly, for but the third time in her long history, Cyon is at war.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Aug 2018, 20:36

The economic power of major noble houses continues to decline in the Empire of Venus. While their political power remains intact, generations of arranged marriage by the state means that their wealth is being dispersed across a wider section of the population. While their political power under the constitution remains intact, despite their power some have trouble maintaining their once-massive estates. Some have, as a result, turned them into luxury apartments, or sold them to the state to be turned into museums/public spaces/housing.

While the majority of nobles haven't been reduced to such levels, the arranged marriage system ensures that neither the inbreeding nor concentrated weath common in Old Europe occur on Venus, and marriage alliances are similarly impossible to orchestrate.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby mat.gopack » 05 Aug 2018, 20:39

Subotai45 wrote:The economic power of major noble houses continues to decline in the Empire of Venus. While their political power remains intact, generations of arranged marriage by the state means that their wealth is being dispersed across a wider section of the population. While their political power under the constitution remains intact, despite their power some have trouble maintaining their once-massive estates. Some have, as a result, turned them into luxury apartments, or sold them to the state to be turned into museums/public spaces/housing.

While the majority of nobles haven't been reduced to such levels, the arranged marriage system ensures that neither the inbreeding nor concentrated weath common in Old Europe occur on Venus, and marriage alliances are similarly impossible to orchestrate.

(Legal inheritance on Venus is not primogeniture, then?)
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Aug 2018, 20:43

Inheritance of the main title goes to the firstborn, but not the entire estate. Younger siblings get an equal share of the estate.
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Re: General Domestic Issues

Postby mat.gopack » 05 Aug 2018, 20:49

Subotai45 wrote:Inheritance of the main title goes to the firstborn, but not the entire estate. Younger siblings get an equal share of the estate.

Is that by law? Or just by custom?

Because unless it's law, I'd imagine there's at least a few that wouldn't have conformed.
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