Ratings Shield Question.

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Ratings Shield Question.

Postby SimonMH » 08 Apr 2018, 07:11

I had a charged Ratings Shield and took over a surrendered country, knowing I would probably be eliminated but with a small chance of getting a draw.
Then in another game I surrendered when it became clear that a player was going to reach 18 and I saw no point in prolonging the agony.
Now I see my shield is drained, presumably because of the surrender. I am guessing this means I am no longer protected in the game I took over?
If I start another rated game, will my shield come back for the game I took over?
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby mhsmith0 » 08 Apr 2018, 07:26

Go to your games lost
https://www.playdiplomacy.com/games.php

If ratings shield is active for a game, it’ll show it. Typically, the act of joining a surrendered position drains the shield and then applies it o that game. An undrained shield means yiu can join a surrendered position risk free.
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 08 Apr 2018, 07:26

SimonMH wrote:I had a charged Ratings Shield and took over a surrendered country, knowing I would probably be eliminated but with a small chance of getting a draw.
Then in another game I surrendered when it became clear that a player was going to reach 18 and I saw no point in prolonging the agony.
Now I see my shield is drained, presumably because of the surrender. I am guessing this means I am no longer protected in the game I took over?
If I start another rated game, will my shield come back for the game I took over?

Correct, you have lost the shield.

If you start a new rated game, the shield will be there for the next, but it won't return for the current game you're in, that was lost when you surrendered.
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby SimonMH » 08 Apr 2018, 07:42

Correct, you have lost the shield.

If you start a new rated game, the shield will be there for the next, but it won't return for the current game you're in, that was lost when you surrendered.


OK, thanks, live and learn I guess. Had I known I would lose the shield I would have prolonged the agony in the other game.

Philosphical question. Obviously this is to discourage surrenders, which in general I agree is a good idea. BUT there is a difference between surrendering in a competitive game because you can't be bothered, and surrendering in a hard-fought game where the result is obvious. Why play on for heart-failure, as bridge players would say?
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 08 Apr 2018, 07:55

SimonMH wrote:
Correct, you have lost the shield.

If you start a new rated game, the shield will be there for the next, but it won't return for the current game you're in, that was lost when you surrendered.


OK, thanks, live and learn I guess. Had I known I would lose the shield I would have prolonged the agony in the other game.

Philosphical question. Obviously this is to discourage surrenders, which in general I agree is a good idea. BUT there is a difference between surrendering in a competitive game because you can't be bothered, and surrendering in a hard-fought game where the result is obvious. Why play on for heart-failure, as bridge players would say?

Because a diplomacy game is rarely actually over until it's, ya know, over. Usually there's at least some small possibility that the end isn't inevitable.

Diplomacy isn't Chess or bridge. There's no honor in surrendering in Diplomacy.
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby super_dipsy » 08 Apr 2018, 08:53

Just to add a bit to what Nanook said, it would be almost impossible for the game software to judge whether a surrender is on the basis of being fed up or the result being obvious as you say. As Nanook says, amazing things can happen in Diplomacy. There are examples of players who have taken up a 1 unit / 1 centre country and ended up winning :o . For the software to judge that would be impossible. You may feel that in a late-stage game if you have only one centre and the board leader is closing in fast on 18 then your cause is totally lost (after all, we do not all have the diplomatic skills to turn one centre into a solo, I know I haven't ;) ). But the game depends on all parties being active. You may surrender because you believe you cannot get anything out of the game, but the mere act of doing so could easily affect the result in some way in that it may give and advantage or disadvantage to other countries in their struggle. That is one of the main reasons we discourage surrenders; because of the effect on other players in the game.

However, perhaps we should add something to the Surrender confirmation box. Maybe what we should do is rather than make the point as we do today that you cannot return to the game if you surrender (which frankly should be pretty obvious) we should instead warn you that surrendering will cancel any shields you have active. Although in my experience I have found people almost never actually read confirmation boxes.... :(
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Re: Ratings Shield Question.

Postby ColonelApricot » 08 Apr 2018, 22:38

Though it may seem pointless not to surrender, it's very easy to maintain the position by just spending a few seconds putting in a single hold order each round. If the situation is bad then you'll be eliminated pretty soon anyway, but with the benefit of charging your ratings shield and avoiding damaging your reputation which means that other players will prefer to play with you rather than against known "surrender bunnies".

And sometimes you may be surprised to find another player approaches you with a proposal to keep you alive with a draw prospect!

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