Classicist Application

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Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 08 Aug 2013, 06:56

My past five rank/norank games have gone without surrender (except possibly one by an admin...I'd have to check...), and I have never missed an order yet.
I would like to apply as a Bronze member.

If the game #63439, "It's The Final Countdown" falls into this window of games (the exception I mentioned earlier), I would like to reference viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38924 for all information regarding the specifics...
I have no way of knowing how many games I have actually played, but unless that number is over 14, I'm afraid I can only apply as Bronze for now...but am itching to get into some games without fear of others' poor etiquette. I surrendered in what I believe to be my fourth game, not realizing it was frowned upon.
I look forward to hearing back. Thank you for your time.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 08 Aug 2013, 08:10

Thanks for the application Arunos. Some solo rate you have there, I see you have played 8 rank games and soloed 6 of them! Stand by for a wey-hey from Petunia on that one :)

In terms of Bronze membership, you are almost there but not quite. No problem with the NMR rate (100% of moves played) or the game count (9 including the norank one, 1 short of the requirement for Silver). But the issue comes with the surrender, and the fact that it was an admin-surrender is actually quite a serious matter. I read through the discussion in the link you gave me (thanks for that) and although the admins who dealt with it did say that they believed there was no deliberate intent to cheat, they stood by their decision to remove you from the game.

Now, that's all done and dusted and we don't want to open all that up again because you've moved on and I'm sure the Classicist community will have no doubts about your integrity (I certainly don't from the posts of yours that I've read). But in terms of fulfilling the criteria for Bronze admission, there are two aspects of this admin-surrender that I need to mention. The first is that two months need to elapse after an admin sanction before Bronze membership can be considered. The admin surrender was on 21 June, which means that it is not too much longer (21 August) before you would become eligible for Bronze. The second aspect is that you have finished 4 games since that admin-surrender, and there really need to be 5 games since your last surrender before Bronze admission.

So, what you need to do is, apply again on/after 21 August, and in the mean time get another game finished without surrender. Then I would be delighted to welcome you in, I'm sure you'll be a real asset to the community. Keep in touch!
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 08 Aug 2013, 17:32

Right...2 months...
Forgot about that...
Thank you for the reply
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 08 Aug 2013, 17:45

Rick did say he cleared me in his post, though...
Is that no good, then?...
I was not removed based on my own actions, and I cannot imagine if I were a high tier classicist that you would suspend my membership for two months because someone else's actions caused me to be admin-surrendered...

From the other moderators I talked to, it sounded as though I could apply for classicists now...
Is there nothing else I can do?
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 09 Aug 2013, 20:27

Thing is, Arunos, the reason that membership of the Classicists is so sought after by players on here, and why having that badge means what it does to the rest of the community, is because there are standards that have to be met for admission. If we were to allow those standards to be eroded the whole significance of membership would be devalued, and given that you are so close (21 August is only a couple of weeks away, and one game is not that difficult to get under your belt) I don't think there is any need to start setting a precedent here in which we start compromising those standards, and your membership will have stronger credentials for the wait.

I have read the thread about the admin-surrender incident and agree that Rick cleared you of any deliberate intention to cheat, but he also made it clear twice that he stood by his decision to surrender you from the game. As far as comments from other moderators about Classicist admission goes, I also read your Chronicles of Arunos thread and saw some posts in there advising you to apply for membership when you meet the criteria, but if there are any posts in which a moderator has said that the admin-surrender should be disregarded in relation to membership then I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of them.

With regard to exisiting members of the Classicists, actually if you read our sub-forum you will see that members are, from time to time, issued with sanctions when the need arises, and everyone in the group recognises and respects that this is necessary in order to preserve the integrty of the group and the standing in which its members are held.

Hope that all makes sense. If any of the various members of the group that are regularly active in these forums think I am wrong for taking this line then I know they will not be backwards in coming forwards and saying so, and I would encourage them to do so. We all make mistakes, and I would hate to think I am doing you an injustice here. But in the meantime, please do get that extra game in and get back in touch on 21 August if you are still interested. :)
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 10 Aug 2013, 01:30

I do not take offense, and understand your reasoning and am currently working on several new games.
My one concern for this ruling is that if I was, say, a current platinum member, couldn't someone come along, holding a grudge, and personally try and sabotage my reputation, thereby making me lose any access to classicist games for two months, as well as removing the prestige of platinum for a whole year?...
I can't think of anyone who would be so dedicated...but that was my main concern...

Or that I was a member and had been sanctioned...
It is not like Rick could have put me back into the then unranked game, since Germany had already confessed to France that he was Meta-gaming, and after removing the two of us, France decided he was going to make the entire board blue without waiting for replacements (not that I blame him XD pretty epic lol) which he accomplished in little less than ten minutes...
Rick had little choice but to keep me surrendered, as he explained, since there was significant evidence we were meta-gaming...

I do not wish to argue any of those rulings, as I respect the authority and judgement of the moderators.
I am just curious as to whether these sorts of questions have been addressed on site before...
Thank you for your time, I appreciate all clarification :) and WILL be back August 21st ;)
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Petunia » 10 Aug 2013, 02:45

You know, this is now the third time I've read that thread and I just realized that you didn't actually know the other guy at all. It was truly a case of unilateral metagaming. HE allied with YOU based on your other shared game and you were just playing it as an individual game. Even after I recently re-read that thread to realize that you really weren't at fault I never quite got to the realization that he's not somebody you actually know at all, just some random you shared another game with.

Now I kinda do feel like you got screwed a bit in that game. But that's spilt milk under the bridge at this point.

I have to say that I respect your attitude and persistence in the face of adversity and I think you'll make a fine addition to the Classicists. But I also agree with Gareth's decision here. We try (I should say he tries) to avoid judgment calls whenever possible, and the Classicist rules on this point are quite clear. Whether or not I necessarily agree with the original decision that Rick made to remove you from that game, that's what happened, and we require 2 months and 5 games since a sanction. I appreciate your willingness to accept the ruling, and again, look forward to seeing you back here in a couple weeks. And I want to say again that I admire your willingness to take ownership of a situation not of your choosing.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 10 Aug 2013, 04:57

Thank you :)
I try and keep a positive attitude toward everything I put my mind to ;) lol

Plus I really enjoy playing Diplomacy...despite all the unfortunate happenings in my first four months...
You have not yet realized your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to Europe. France, you can destroy the Juggernaut! Join me, and together we can rule all of Europe as father and son.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Arunos » 24 Aug 2013, 07:36

So do I just comment here?...or create a new application?...
You have not yet realized your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to Europe. France, you can destroy the Juggernaut! Join me, and together we can rule all of Europe as father and son.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 24 Aug 2013, 08:51

Ah, yes, thanks for the nudge. Happy to say you now tick all the boxes, so a very warm welcome to the Classicists (yes, that's still what we're called!) as a Bronze member. Congratulations.
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