Classicist Application

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Classicist Application

Postby Zack L1ghtman » 24 Jul 2013, 14:39

I wish to join the classicists.

I have finished 5 games. 4 rank, 1 no rank.
I have a 0% surrender rate.
I have 100% consistency rate.

JD.CoolPenguin Stats as of 24 July, 2013 wrote:0 surrenders (rank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
0 surrenders (norank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
195/195 turns taken (100.00% consistency rate)


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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 24 Jul 2013, 16:09

Weird. Another situation in which the stats are wrong. Your stats only show 4 finished games, but there are definitely 5 (all rank or norank) in your archive. So...welcome to Bronze membership.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby sinnybee » 24 Jul 2013, 17:24

gareth66 wrote:Weird. Another situation in which the stats are wrong. Your stats only show 4 finished games, but there are definitely 5 (all rank or norank) in your archive. So...welcome to Bronze membership.

The stats are not wrong...
The stats have never included anything but ranked games in the finished games count.
The stats didn't used to include norank surrenders and norank consistency, but they do now.

No reason why JDCP/RiD can't be a gold member, he meets all qualifications.

retard.in.denial
20 finished games
0 surrenders (rank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
0 surrenders (norank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
525/538 turns taken (97.58% consistency rate)

525/538 + 195/195 = 720/733 = 98.23% consistency rate
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 24 Jul 2013, 17:34

That's not correct sinny. The stats include both rank and norank games. And for JD.CoolPenguin they show 4 finished games, which is indeed incorrect because he has finished 5 (as he himself has claimed). This is the second time I have discovered a situation where the stats for a player are not consistent with his game archive, and when I posted about this the first time an answer came back from Petunia that there has been an issue to do with the stats being innaccurate ever since he has been on the site.

Anyway, I have happily gone with the 5. (Where you get 20 from I have no idea).
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby sinnybee » 24 Jul 2013, 20:45

gareth66 wrote:That's not correct sinny.

Yes, actually it is correct.

gareth66 wrote:The stats include both rank and norank games.

Nope.
I've been analyzing stats on this site since 2010.
The stats used to only include ranked games.
Then, we changed it, so that we started to report norank surrenders, being shown seperate from ranked surrenders.
Also, at the same time, we started including norank consistency, combining it with ranked consistency.
However, other than surrenders and consistency, norank games are not reported on stats.

gareth66 wrote:And for JD.CoolPenguin they show 4 finished games, which is indeed incorrect because he has finished 5 (as he himself has claimed).

He indeed does have 4 ranked finished games (as he himself has claimed), so the stats are reporting the correct figure, as they have always reported the amount of ranked finished games.

gareth66 wrote:This is the second time I have discovered a situation where the stats for a player are not consistent with his game archive,

There is an inconsistency because stats finished game count doesn't include norank games. In the game archive, you are able to list ranked games, norank games, both, or whatever combination you wish. If you only click the "Rank" box, then you should have the same number in the archive for that player (minus surrendered games, which are not listed in the archive under the player, as the archive only lists the players on the roster at the end of the game) as you have listed in the stats finished games count.

#1
stats wrote:gsmx
83 finished games

Archived games--Rank wrote:82 archived games [+ 1 ranked surrender = 83]

Archived games--No Rank wrote:50 archived games

#2
stats wrote:djantani
10 finished games

Archived games--Rank wrote:9 archived games [+ 1 ranked surrender = 10]

Archived games--No Rank wrote:2 archived games

#3
stats wrote:Parmesan
68 finished games

Archived games--Rank wrote:68 archived games (0 ranked surrenders)

Archived games--No Rank wrote:1 archived games

#4
stats wrote:MercutiotheMagnificent
32 finished games

Archived games--Rank wrote:28 archived games [+ 4 ranked surrenders = 32]

Archived games--No Rank wrote:2 archived games

#5
stats wrote:Squasher
82 finished games

Archived games--Rank wrote:82 archived games (0 ranked surrenders)

Archived games--No Rank wrote:26 archived games

Do you believe me now?
Would you like me to give you any more examples?

gareth66 wrote:and when I posted about this the first time an answer came back from Petunia that there has been an issue to do with the stats being innaccurate ever since he has been on the site.

Well, Petunia has been on the site for a shorter period than you have and I have been on the site for a longer period than you have.
However, even if today was my first day on the site, I happen to be correct. I pay close attention to the stats of this site as I do to the stats related posts of super_dipsy and others.

gareth66 wrote:Anyway, I have happily gone with the 5. (Where you get 20 from I have no idea).

JDCP's username used to be retard.in.denial.
Why should he not get credit for having 98+% consistency for 20+ games with no surrenders when he has indeed met all the requirements for gold membership?
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Zack L1ghtman » 24 Jul 2013, 23:22

sinnybee wrote:No reason why JDCP/RiD can't be a gold member, he meets all qualifications.

retard.in.denial
20 finished games
0 surrenders (rank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
0 surrenders (norank games) (0.00% surrender rate)
525/538 turns taken (97.58% consistency rate)

525/538 + 195/195 = 720/733 = 98.23% consistency rate

sinnybee wrote:
gareth66 wrote:Anyway, I have happily gone with the 5. (Where you get 20 from I have no idea).

JDCP's username used to be retard.in.denial.
Why should he not get credit for having 98+% consistency for 20+ games with no surrenders when he has indeed met all the requirements for gold membership?


Whilst this is true, I am more than happy to come in at Bronze and work up through the ranks under JDCP if that's how the mods here see it. After all RiD was about 4 years ago!
(which is partly why I chose to come back with a new name instead of picking up where I left off, 4 years is a long time, and I have definitely changed a lot since then)

gareth66 wrote:Weird. Another situation in which the stats are wrong. Your stats only show 4 finished games, but there are definitely 5 (all rank or norank) in your archive. So...welcome to Bronze membership.

Are they wrong? I just assumed they only counted ranked games.
But thank you :D I'm looking forward to playing with communicative and reliable players :)
Thoroughly enjoyed both games I've played with drnomeansyes - even the one where he stabbed and killed me - and look forward to more games like that.

Just a thought - would it be possible to add countries next to players names in the members list? Whilst countries make no odds for most games, it would make a difference to setting up live games and it would be nice to know where players are from if they don't mind sharing that information.
Regardless of wether you do that with everyone, can I have (UK) put next to my name please? :) Thank you!

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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Zack L1ghtman » 25 Jul 2013, 10:34

Just to clear up the stats argument:

super_dipsy wrote:In general the Statistics always refer to RANKED games, unless called out otherwise.

So the total games finished is always RANKED games.


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Re: Classicist Application

Postby gareth66 » 25 Jul 2013, 14:42

Thanks for your thoughts JDCP, and again welcome, delighted to have you on board.

Without wanting to protract this thread too much beyond where it has already got to, I do for the record need to clear up the issue of membership tier. This started out as a simple and straightforward membership application, JDCP applied declaring himself to have finished 5 games and I very promptly checked the archives, verified that he had indeed finished 5 games, verified the NMR and surrender stats, and duly admitted him to Bronze membership as he applied for.

There the matter should really have rested, but for the fact that the issue of his previous membership of the site under another name was raised. Because this issue has wider ramifications that could have all sorts of knock-on complications across the membership, it is necessary to address that query head on.

I was told that he had previously been on the site under another name. Now, if this had been the same account that had just been renamed, it would be a simple matter to accommodate the previous history as it will have shown up immediately in the stats and archives for that account. But as they don't, this is clearly a new account. As Classicist moderators it is enough work to verify the credentials for membership of one account every time there is an application, without having to wade through whether there were any others previously operated by the same person as I seem to be being expected to do. Even if I knew how to do this (which I don't), this is simply not a reasonable thing to expect the moderators to do every time there is an application. The rule has to be, therefore, that each account is considered on the basis of the stats for that account and that account only when it comes to membership decisions. Anything more than that would not be practical.

Now the question will be asked, in the particular case of JDCP I have now been informed of a previous account, there is no need for me to find out for myself, so why can't I take that into account in this case? The answer is (notwithstanding the fact that JDCP has not himself asked me to take into account his previous membership) that this would not be fair to other players who may be/have been in the same position. Either we need to take previous membership into account for everybody, or nobody. And given that it is not possible to make those checks for everybody, it has to be the latter.

Again, Penguin himself has stated he is perfectly happy to work his way through the tiers (and I would imagine this will not take him long) so I really don't see what the problem is here. With that I will end my contribution to this thread, but I'll leave it open in case anyone else wants to comment further.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby Petunia » 25 Jul 2013, 16:44

gareth66 wrote:Even if I knew how to do this (which I don't), this is simply not a reasonable thing to expect the moderators to do every time there is an application. The rule has to be, therefore, that each account is considered on the basis of the stats for that account and that account only when it comes to membership decisions.
No doubt the right decision.
Any views expressed prior to Dec 2013 are solely my own and do not represent the site or its administration in any way.
I took a break from the site for a while. I'm back now. Hi.
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Re: Classicist Application

Postby sinnybee » 25 Jul 2013, 19:25

gareth66 wrote:As Classicist moderators it is enough work to verify the credentials for membership of one account every time there is an application, without having to wade through whether there were any others previously operated by the same person as I seem to be being expected to do.

No, I don't expect that of you at all, I just thought that you might have remembered that JDCP is retard.in.denial, since he's mentioned it at least a few times and since you're active on the forum. Not a problem at all that you didn't know.

gareth66 wrote:Even if I knew how to do this (which I don't), this is simply not a reasonable thing to expect the moderators to do every time there is an application.

Of course; I never asked nor expected you to check--neither of us even has the ability to check.

gareth66 wrote:The rule has to be, therefore, that each account is considered on the basis of the stats for that account and that account only when it comes to membership decisions. Anything more than that would not be practical.

That's totally fine; this is a very rare case anyway, and you're the leader of the classicists--it's your call.

gareth66 wrote:Now the question will be asked, in the particular case of JDCP I have now been informed of a previous account, there is no need for me to find out for myself, so why can't I take that into account in this case? The answer is (notwithstanding the fact that JDCP has not himself asked me to take into account his previous membership) that this would not be fair to other players who may be/have been in the same position. Either we need to take previous membership into account for everybody, or nobody.

Obviously we need consistency, but have you come across this before?
If there was already a precident set in this matter to ignore past records of a player, then I'm sorry I didn't know about it, as I wouldn't have brought up the point had I known about the rule in place.

gareth66 wrote:And given that it is not possible to make those checks for everybody, it has to be the latter.

Again, do whatever you want, it's not like there's really any difference with being bronze or gold anyway, so no need to make a big deal of this. I just thought that it might be nice to honor the great record that JDCP had while as retard.in.denial, with an additional 20 ranked games without a single surrender. However, again I'm fine with your call.

gareth66 wrote:Again, Penguin himself has stated he is perfectly happy to work his way through the tiers (and I would imagine this will not take him long) so I really don't see what the problem is here.

There isn't a problem. Aren't we done here?

gareth66 wrote:With that I will end my contribution to this thread, but I'll leave it open in case anyone else wants to comment further.

Awesome, thanks for letting me respond.
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