AAR: 141034. C-Diplo Series 2018

Discussion of finished games.

Re: AAR: 141034. C-Diplo Series 2018

Postby Ceasars Geezers » 25 Apr 2018, 19:43

Cliff Dancer wrote:Caesar,

While I don't think taking out Turkey for extra centers is a bad thing, I just think it was bad at that moment. Let's posture that instead you work with Turkey to help him hold all his centers. I likely hold back (you can't be guaranteed of this of course, but my spring orders indicated that may be the case). And then in 07, you grab a few of Turkeys centers to solidify your 2nd place finish. That makes a lot of sense to me, and is very low risk overall (Russia ending at likely 15 in that case). To accelerate the plan as you did, you guaranteed a much larger Russian threat, as well as greatly weakened faith in the "Grand Alliance" to stop him.

So the logic of maximizing gains should be tempered slightly depending on board state in CliffDancer logic.

CD


I do see your point here, but there is still more to consider in my decision making. You did eventually agree to drop the convoy idea to get me to comply, but unfortunately, I did not hear from Turkey until the last minute and at that time he was also proposing the convoy idea. I just found this idea untenable. At the time, I felt that the Turk and I could have held out for a year or so, while you guys worked in the north. When I presented that idea to the group, it was met with laughter and dismissal. When deciding what to do in a game, I find issues like these very important. I proposed counter offers but they were never addressed or considered; pair that with the "throwing the game" threat and it did not make for a cooperative environment. Finally, Russias game theory argument was very compelling. As you said, I could not guarantee that you were going to back away from my centers. In fact you were proposing to loop around my centers. Yes in the end, you did in fact move away, but at that point I had already made the decision to stay with Russia. Thus I found the choice to stay with Russia less risky, not more.
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Re: AAR: 141034. C-Diplo Series 2018

Postby Ceasars Geezers » 25 Apr 2018, 19:51

NoPunIn10Did wrote:
I find this whole discussion fascinating. Part of what I hope C-Diplo will bring to players is this exact dilemma:
“Assuming I am not the solo threat, how many SCs can I grab before 1907 without letting someone else solo?”

In traditional Dip, endgame dilemmas are similar, but it’s a lot easier to ask “Would this move risk the solo eventually?” rather than “Would this move risk the solo in X years?”

Likewise, if scoring is omitted (or is purely draw-based, as it is on the site), there’s often no value to breaking a stop-the-leader alliance.


Yes, this is so important. When I first joined the game, I actually thought it was going to be friendlier, and less cutthroat. But in SP 05, I came to the conclusion that I had it all wrong. I should have been thinking about maximizing centers he whole time. This can actually lead to more ruthless decision making (i.e. my Turkish stab. In regular dip, you have less of an incentive to gab that one last center. For example, in the end, Russia grabbed Germanys center in order to maximize his points. In regular dip, if he had decided not to solo, then he would have no reason to do such a thing. Of course, in regular dip you wouldnt have the time constraint either... so it is entirely different.

When you read that article, you think, oh this will be friendly and fun for beginners.... but as willie can attest, I do not think that was the case here. Why do you think that is? Because of Russia and Is aggressive play? Or just the nature of the game?
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Re: AAR: 141034. C-Diplo Series 2018

Postby willie23 » 30 Apr 2018, 23:24

Cliff Dancer wrote:
Germany,
I am curious where I came off as off-putting (other than of course this forum!). I'll be sure to go back and look at message history. I think overall I don't necessarily view "warmth" of a message as an overall indicator of who to ally with, it's more 1) who doesn't lie to me and 2) what does the board call for. Any insight you can offer I would really appreciate.

CD, France


I haven’t checked in for a while as I was pushing the PlayDip Historical Society Through, but to answer your question, I try to go with the guy that is sincere, respectful, has a good knowledge of the board state/rules/strategy without being a “commander” saying “you must move here because of this:”. Even if this player is correct, It still gets me irritated, maybe not enough to stab, but combined with other things...

Not trying to imply anything here, you were nice enough, just there was a certain, I dunno, undertone to your messages. Kind of hard to explain. Like I said, this may be a bad thing when looking for an Ally, but that’s what does it for me. As Italy(Caesar’s) said though, if going back to the fellow that just stabbed you is the best option, then I’ll do it. I went back to Russia three times! It helped that he was an excellent diplomat, but still.

It was a good game, and I hope to see some of you guys in the next one, though if it doesn’t start soon I may have to drop out...I’ll PM NoPun.

Willie
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