AAR: 136516. Cicero

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AAR: 136516. Cicero

Postby lb1785 » 13 Mar 2018, 18:46

Classicist game 136516. Cicero has ended on March 11th. Thanks to dib for setting it up.

Here are the players and final result:

FRANCE: Shyvve
ITALY: DirtyHarry
AUSTRIA: Gavrilo Princip
RUSSIA: Charleroi

The final board state:

I of course enjoyed a lot this game, obviously due to the result, but also the good communication by the players (though I have to say my multiple stabs didn't exactly allow the conversations to blossom into true long-term cooperation).

I hope to be able to write a complete AAR soon, but I may have to do this bit by bit; meanwhile, if other players want to tell their own stories I'd love to hear them!
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"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." (Winston Churchill)
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Re: AAR: 136516. Cicero

Postby DirtyHarry » 18 Mar 2018, 23:21

I just noticed this topic - if was a fun game with lots of good communicators. I had no idea until just now that France was @Shyvve - hey man! I'm just realizing now I never looked up who was who after the game.

The game starting by looking very similar to a Western Triple I had read about - especially Germany's actions. But what was "insane" was Germany heading to Silesia (per an aggressive WT) and Russia bouncing him there! So I remember thinking that Russia must have been warned in advance. And I remember thinking that England's actions weren't very WT-ish, and he was probably setting up German and or France. In my view, it takes a lot of guts to agree to a WT as either Germany or France, I've seen a number of times where one or the other gets crushed. It's very powerful when all three commit, but I think it's rare for it to last. But I digress. Meanwhile I opened in a very conservative way, keeping my options open.

Then it quickly became obvious that France was coming my way, WT or not. I sent a very "fun to write" chainsaw letter to Shyvve, not knowing it was him, hoping he might reconsider coming in my direction. Of course, it was to no avail, and I just tried to defend. And in F02 Austria (@Gavrilo Princip) saw the danger and was generous enough to lend me Trieste so I could get another build and try to hold off France. And we couched it as me "stabbing" him to fool some of the others. But with Austria's help, I was able to to survive.

Then in 1904 things turn in my favor in that England finally stabbed France, getting France off my back and I get another build from a crumbing Austria. But not long after this, I blew it :-)

At this point, I'm pretty friendly with everyone left, except I really didn't have any comms with Germany. He hadn't responded to my last message, and was in trouble. France and I made up and I wasn't heading west at that point because I while I was on good terms with Turkey, I was also wary.

In 1905, I stabbed Germany with help from England and I'm thinking that this could be an E/I/T three way draw. Germany complained about my stab in the public press and I replied with an undiplomatic response, which I would pay for later (I think). Dumb move, DH!

And in S06, I signed my own death warrant. Since I'd convinced myself that E/I/T was highly probable, I decide to let Turkey out his corner by helping him into Galicia. But it was a really dumb move, because Turkey kept insisting he didn't want to attack Russia, but he wanted to help me limit England in Germany instead. Which really didn''t make any sense to me, and Russia and I could have kept Turkey on lock-down for quite some time. But I thought, what the heck, I'll help Turkey and then try to convince him to attack Russia.

But I got zero chance to convince Turkey of anything. His stab was immediate and brutal, and made even more brutal by the involvement of a rouge Germany army. And I'm guessing Germany absolutely loved it.

So, in the end, I was happy to see England win this one since I couldn't win or be part of the draw. Turkey stabbed me, it happens, part of the game, but it really bugged me that he didn't communicate for three game years after. He waited until the very end, when I was decimated and he wanted my help preventing the English solo. But at that point, I just couldn't stomach working with Turkey to stop the solo because what he was asking me to do would also give him the chance to finish me off and not help play kingmaker. He swore up and down that he was trying to keep me around, but based on the previous three years I just didn't think he was sincere. I tried to make a last minute deal with him that would potentially stop the solo, but also allow me to rebound slightly and actually be part of the draw, if the solo defense was successful. But he wouldn't do what I was asking. If had come to me earlier, when I had a few units left, I would have been happy to consider working with him on the solo defense.

@ib785 - I would encourage you to send PMs to those involved - like I said, I didn't know this thread had been created since I hadn't checked this part of the forum in a while.
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Re: AAR: 136516. Cicero

Postby Charleroi » 19 Mar 2018, 18:03

This was not a great match for me, which is bit depressing because the handful of times I've played Russia in the past it's gone much better than it did this time.

Early on I was friendly enough with Austria and Turkey that I didn't really want to muck things up with a move to Galicia. And then I genuinely couldn't come up with anything to do with Warsaw and decided hey, here's an outside the box idea, how about an early campaign against Germany. It would been great fun but instead it ran into this bizarro WT. I say bizarro not because it was unusual as WTs go - there were a few deviations from the norm (England capturing Nwy with a fleet, for example) - but because I cannot understand how any player as Germany would ever agree to a WT. My only explanation is that England worked some voodoo magic on Germany. Seriously, every message I sent Germany between fall of 1901 and his ultimate demise was something along the lines of "what are you doing, don't you realize that England is going to capture Kiel/Denmark/Munich as soon he hits a dead-end in the general neighborhood of St pete?"

I was so thoroughly convinced that no rational Germany would play the WT that I refused to agree there was one. Up until Fall 1902 and the destruction of my fleet in Denmark I genuinely thought England was part of a merry conspiracy against Germany. From England's perspective, this was all brilliant. Just masterful work. But I cannot understand what you were doing to get Germany to go along with it. Does he owe you money? Did you catch him in the midst of torrid affair which you're now threatening to publicize? Germany's kamikaze approach to invading Russia just made it impossible for me to get up off the ground. And while I was trying to, Turkey took the wide open invitation to grab what he could (well timed, by the way).

Then it was a matter of trying to hold on - Italy, as he mentioned, broke the plan that he and I had to contain Turkey. At that point (1905-06ish) I was trying to gain back ground against Turkey while mending fences with England. This turned out to be a mistake. It made Turkey mad, which bit me later, and it left England in a little too much ease and comfort. By 1907 I had decided that England actually a greater danger and began trying to hold him off while also trying to persuade Turkey to return Sev so that I could build an additional army and at least make England really work for it before he got St pete. But no dice. Turkey wouldn't go for it (this is the part where it comes back to bite me) and then I was just desperately trying to hold War and Mos so that I would be stationed on the stalemate line and have a share of the draw if we could force one. As we all know, there wasn't.
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Re: AAR: 136516. Cicero

Postby Shyvve » 19 Mar 2018, 19:59

Shyvve here as France.

I won't have a terribly whole lot to say here but I did want to at least congratulate England (lb1785) publicly on his solo. A very strong game he played with almost no tactical errors/oversights which I could see. Two very well timed and executed stabs on both Germany and myself. Also, I thought England did an excellent job with his unit mix, ensuring he got enough armies deployed into Germany in time, to hold onto his gains there before the opposition could threaten to take back either Munich or Berlin.
I will say that the opposition, by this time really only Italy and Turkey (as Russia couldn't afford to budge out of War or Mos), never really could agree on a suitable plan to threaten Mun or Ber in time.

Also a really nice game played by Turkey (GPD) who I believe came very close to 2WD-ing this with England (had Turkey taken/been given Tunis).

It was also nice to share a game with a couple of players, Alman and Gavrilo Princip, whom I've not had the pleasure of playing with prior. Everyone else on this board I've played at least once with before.

The Western Triple was more or less doomed, I think, after the very first turn. Germany's open to Pru and Sil (bounced), coupled with England's army opening to Yor, meant that England would need to convoy his army to Hol in F01 if the WT wanted that build. The presence of England's army in Hol, while possibly a benefit to Germany which would allow Germany to push forward in the interior, also posed a threat to the Kaiser. Things developed where it was necessary that England take Denmark to dislodge the Russian fleet therein.

So by the end of '02, we had an England in Hol and Den while Germany was in StP. So yes, a bit of a mutant WT here. Situation very unstable as Germany is so overextended to the East. I'm locked up with Italy (my friend and rival, DirtyHarry!).
The AIR seems stable enough and Turkey is contained but also rather invulnerable.

F03-Game Changer
Turkey stabs Austria and Russia for a whopping four centers. England buries the knife in Germany too (taking Swe and Kie) while also supporting the Russian army in StP. Germany does get into Moscow but...small consolation there.

In S04 the above happens, England moves to the Channel. And...the fun for me has just begun! I do my best to stand and fight England hoping that we get a chance to retake Munich or Berlin. We just don't get there in time.
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