AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Discussion of finished games.

AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby Shyvve » 22 Mar 2017, 19:00

Game Link: http://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_play_ ... _id=124805
Begun: Jan 03 2017
Finished: Mar 21 2017
Result: 4-way draw (F,G,R,T) reached during F09 adjustments phase
Summary: A buncha Oldies moving pieces around the board until we all got tired and called it a draw.

The Players
Wellington-England (eliminated)
Machiara-France (4way DRAW)
ThomM/one eye-Italy {ThomM auto-surrendered at end of F07 movement phase; one eye joined game during F07 adjustment phase} (not included in draw)
AleBelly-Germany (4way DRAW)
Crunkus-Austria (eliminated)
Shyvve-Turkey (4way DRAW)
bindlestiff-Russia (4way DRAW)

Final Board Image: During F09 Adj. Phase
Image

So, looking at the above image, one might wonder why this game ended when it did as the situation appears quite fluid. And why bother to compose an AAR for a game that witnessed a rather unsatisfying conclusion. If you bother to read on I will attempt to tell you, from a Turkish perspective.

My Objective(s) in this Game
1. Primary objective- Simply survive and not embarrass myself horribly :lol: .
This is my first game onsite and my first experience playing Diplomacy online. My previous experience with the game consisted of casual games with a small group of high-school friends...a very, very long time ago...back in the days of mood rings and 8-track tapes.
2. Secondary objective- Try to have some fun and not stress too badly even if things do not go well. While at the same time make some acquaintances and determine if online Diplomacy is something I'll enjoy and have the time for.

Both objectives were accomplished and I found this game, the online format and the individuals involved to be entertaining, engaging, variously frustrating or satisfying, and I enjoyed playing immensely.

The Start
I was fortunate to have drawn Turkey. I remembered France being my favorite country to play but I was relieved not to have been given Germany, Austria or Italy.
I eventually stumbled onto the "Stats" tab on the gaming interface side of the site and thought I'd research my opponents prior to the game beginning. During the initial negotiation period, I got the bright idea of posting the results of my research into the Public Press. I hoped to generate some "pre-game buzz" by doing so. As it turns out however, there was one player with some particularly imposing site statistics, Machiara.
(What I posted was: # of solos/# of games played/current site rating [all with PureDip filter]). In hindsight, I think this negatively affected the very early game turns for Machiara (France) and I would not do so again in future games. I feel now it pushes on the border of meta-gaming and wish I hadn't done it. It made things interesting but...probably best to just let everyone do their own homework.

Eastern Triangle early negotiations
Obviously I wanted to avoid being the odd-man out. Being brand new to the site, I felt a particular vulnerability to that very thing happening. It is my impression that serious proposals were made early on for any two of A-R-T to team up and eliminate the third.
I recall receiving what I felt were sincere offers to me from both Austria (Crunkus) and Russia (bindlestiff) to form a partnership against the third. My decision to side with Russia was based mainly on my feeling that an RT partnership would be more 'natural', thus easier for me to manage, than an AT would be. This was a very close call for me, Crunkus, as I am sure you will recall also. I wonder how close this call was for bindlestiff?...to side with Austria and attack Turkey?
As the deadline for S01 turns nears, I find myself leaning towards working with Russia. But, neither do I want to damage my chances for working with Austria should Russia be deceiving me. Negotiations with Italy are also ongoing, mostly conducted by me, to attempt to get Italy to move against Austria on the opening turn. I try not to reveal to Italy that Russia and Turkey seem to be firming up a partnership.
I do not recall whether I attempted to find out what was going to happen in Galicia in S01.

Non-ART opening negotiations
I contact everyone wishing them good luck and to some I make specific inquiries, i.e. any decision on English Channel, Nwy/StP situation, etc. I mostly just wanted to get a feel for which Western Powers I could possibly work with in the future. I am particularly interested in having good relations with France.

S01 Moves
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Discussion
The opening moves portend dire prospects for France. I can only attribute the hostility of EGI's moves towards France as a result of my "statistics" public post during the pre-game discussions. Italy's move to the Pie really hampers France's ability to secure a Fall build. France expresses his disappointment in public press.
Italy expresses real frustration with the bounce occurring in Ven. RT hope to use this to our advantage to persuade Italy to move against Austria vigorously in the Fall.
I am relieved to see the Black Sea DMZ honored.
A proposed split of the Austrain/Balkan centers is discussed among RTI as follows:
Italy-Gre,Tri
Turkey-Bul,Ser,
Russia-Rum,Bud,Vie
A plan to effect the passage of the Russian southern fleet through the Bosporus is tentatively agreed to. As it turns out, Russia and I were never able to effect this passage.
(Text of S01 Orders in spoiler below)
ENGLAND
Edinburgh MOVE North Sea -> resolved
Liverpool MOVE Yorkshire -> resolved
London MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
FRANCE
Marseilles MOVE Burgundy -> Bounced
Paris MOVE Picardy -> resolved
Brest MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
ITALY
Venice MOVE Piedmont -> resolved
Rome MOVE Venice -> Bounced
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
GERMANY
Munich MOVE Burgundy -> Bounced
Berlin MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Holland -> resolved
AUSTRIA
Vienna MOVE Galicia -> Bounced
Trieste MOVE Venice -> Bounced
Budapest MOVE Serbia -> resolved
TURKEY
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria -> resolved
Ankara MOVE Constantinople -> resolved
Smyrna MOVE Ankara -> resolved
RUSSIA
Moscow MOVE Ukraine -> resolved
St. Petersburg (South Coast) MOVE Gulf of Bothnia -> resolved
Warsaw MOVE Galicia -> Bounced
Sevastopol MOVE Rumania -> resolved

Pre-F01 Negotiation
Italy requests my support for his fleet into Gre. I counter by offering to support him into Gre by end of '02 and urge him to take Tun with his fleet this turn. Austria continues his attempts to persuade me to join him against Russia and warns me that the Russian player is not to be trusted. Austria stresses to me how bindlestiff will stall me out against Italy and eventually turn on me. Austria really needs a friend, as in light of his decision to stand off Italy in Venice in the Spring turn, I'm sure he's feeling quite isolated.
I decide to move Bul-Gre to at least bounce either of Austria or Italy. At this point I'm really not worried about AR teaming up on me against Bul.
F01 Moves
Image
Discussion
The worst does happen to France as Germany bounces the French attempt to gain Bel. England moves the home Army to Wales. Italian A Pie attempts to sneak into Mar. France will not an '01 build.
I unexpectedly slip into Gre. Italy makes his only real play and moves his fleet to Tunis.
The German move to Sil is quite unexpected.
I'm not quite sure what to make of Austria's choice to go to Tyrolia.
(F01 orders below)
ENGLAND
North Sea MOVE Norway -> resolved
Yorkshire MOVE Wales -> resolved
London MOVE English Channel -> resolved
FRANCE
Marseilles HOLD -> resolved
Picardy MOVE Belgium -> Bounced
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
ITALY
Piedmont MOVE Marseilles -> Bounced
Rome MOVE Venice -> resolved
Ionian Sea MOVE Tunis -> resolved
GERMANY
Munich MOVE Silesia -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Denmark -> resolved
Holland MOVE Belgium -> Bounced
AUSTRIA
Vienna MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Adriatic Sea -> resolved
Serbia HOLD -> resolved
TURKEY
Bulgaria MOVE Greece -> resolved
Constantinople MOVE Aegean Sea -> resolved
Ankara MOVE Constantinople -> resolved
RUSSIA
Ukraine SUPPORT Warsaw to Galicia -> resolved
Gulf of Bothnia MOVE Sweden -> resolved
Warsaw MOVE Galicia -> resolved
Rumania HOLD -> resolved

W01
Image
Discussion
Russia build StP(sc). I ask about this and Russia informs me that an agreement has been reached with England wherein England has agreed to put no Army in Nwy and Russia agreed to not build F StP(nc). Russia is forced to build an A War to react to the German move to Sil. I am glad to see no Russian build in Sev.
Germany decides on two armies. The remaining builds are to be expected.

Pre-S02 Negotiaton
Russia and I continue to try to disguise the extent of our friendly relations to both A&I. I continue to try to convince Italy to attack Austria and promise Italy Greece if he will. My plan for 02 is to nail down Bul and try to prevent A/I partnering against R/T. Italy is very hesitant to move on Austria and is also upset that I did not assist him into Gre in the Fall. The presence of German A Sil throws a bit of a kink in R/T's plans though.
S02 Moves
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Discussion
Italy lowers the heat against France by moving Pie-Tyr as Austria surprisingly moves from Tyr-Boh. Perhaps Italy has been privy to E-G plans to work against France and has worked out a deal with Austria to threaten Germany from the East.
England attempts the convoy to Pic which France foils.
Russia forces an army into Rum so that we can push on Austria with all haste. It would seem an uneasy peace is achieved between Russia and Germany.
My move to Bul succeeds.
(S02 orders)
ENGLAND
Norway SUPPORT London to North Sea -> resolved
London MOVE North Sea -> resolved
English Channel CONVOY Wales to Picardy -> resolved
Wales MOVE Picardy -> Bounced
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Brest -> Bounced
Picardy MOVE Brest -> Bounced
Marseilles HOLD -> resolved
ITALY
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Tunis SUPPORT Naples to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Venice SUPPORT Piedmont to Tyrolia -> resolved
Piedmont MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
GERMANY
Berlin SUPPORT Silesia to hold -> resolved
Munich MOVE Ruhr -> resolved
Denmark HOLD -> resolved
Silesia HOLD -> resolved
Holland MOVE Belgium -> resolved
AUSTRIA
Adriatic Sea MOVE Albania -> resolved
Serbia MOVE Rumania -> Attack broken by A Ukraine - Rumania
Budapest MOVE Vienna -> resolved
Tyrolia MOVE Bohemia -> resolved
TURKEY
Smyrna MOVE Eastern Mediterranean -> resolved
Greece SUPPORT Constantinople to Bulgaria -> resolved
Aegean Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> Attack broken by F Naples - Ionian Sea
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria -> resolved
RUSSIA
Rumania MOVE Black Sea -> resolved
Galicia SUPPORT Ukraine to Rumania -> resolved
Sweden HOLD -> resolved
Ukraine MOVE Rumania -> resolved
St. Petersburg (South Coast) MOVE Gulf of Bothnia -> resolved
Warsaw SUPPORT Galicia to hold -> resolved

Pre-F02 Negotiation
Turkey's position is quite exposed now to a Russian attack from the Black Sea and to an A/I attack on Gre. I lobby Italy adamantly to make a supported attack into Tri and continue to offer Gre as a reward for doing so. Italy appears not at all interested in doing so and is still rather miffed about not getting Gre in 01.
Russia decides he will attempt a supported attack on Bud from Gal. I hope to just hold onto my recent Bul gain and pray Russia doesn't stab me.
F02 Moves
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Discussion
This was one of "those" turns where some really unexpected events occurred.
First, what seemed like a GE vs F, appears to have become a FE vs G, as England pulls off the convoy Wal-Hol using both fleets Eng and Nth. Nwy-Ska is also ordered for good measure. Congratulations are in order to France for having survived such an unfortunate 01 and will finally get that first build. This was the first of many twists and turns in the unsettled Western triangle.
Amazingly, without giving any indication to me that he would, Italy also snatches Tri from Austria!
I am quite relieved not to see a Russian unit in a Turkish home supply center. Russia and Austria bounce in Bud.
Germany explains his support given to the Austrian Boh-Gal as being done in response to a 'threat' from Austria that Austria would cede his centers to Russia if Germany refused to support the attack.
(F02 Orders)
ENGLAND
Norway MOVE Skagerrack -> resolved
North Sea CONVOY Wales to Holland -> resolved
English Channel CONVOY Wales to Holland -> resolved
Wales MOVE Holland -> resolved
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Brest -> Bounced
Picardy MOVE Brest -> Bounced
Marseilles MOVE Spain -> resolved
ITALY
Ionian Sea SUPPORT Albania to Greece -> Supported order does not correspond
Tunis SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Venice MOVE Trieste -> resolved
Tyrolia SUPPORT Venice to Trieste -> resolved
GERMANY
Berlin SUPPORT Silesia to hold -> resolved
Ruhr SUPPORT Belgium to hold -> resolved
Denmark HOLD -> resolved
Silesia SUPPORT Bohemia to Galicia -> resolved
Belgium HOLD -> resolved
AUSTRIA
Albania SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Greece -> Supported order does not correspond
Serbia MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Vienna SUPPORT Serbia to Budapest -> Supported unit has failed
Bohemia MOVE Galicia -> resolved
TURKEY
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Greece SUPPORT Bulgaria to hold -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Greece to hold -> resolved
Bulgaria SUPPORT Greece to hold -> resolved
RUSSIA
Black Sea MOVE Rumania -> Bounced
Galicia MOVE Budapest -> Dislodged by A Bohemia - Galicia
Sweden HOLD -> resolved
Rumania SUPPORT Galicia to Budapest -> Supported unit has failed
Gulf of Bothnia MOVE St. Petersburg (South Coast) -> resolved
Warsaw HOLD -> resolved

F02 Retreat
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Discussion
Something rather inexplicable occurred with the Russian retreat of his A Gal. He attempted to retreat the unit to Bud (a province where a standoff had occurred) so the army was disbanded. Bindlestiff assured me this was a simple mistake. I grew very suspicious and assumed it was done to allow a build in Sev. In either event, the removal definitely slowed down RT's momentum against Austria.

W02
Image
Discussion
England builds a F Lpl just as it seemed EF had worked out a partnership. England seems to be antagonizing both Germany and France. Would you care to comment on this, Wellington?
I heave a big sigh of relief to see Russia's lost army rebuilt in Mos and not Sev.
Italy and France have demilitarized their border as Italy builds another fleet. It will be slow going for Turkey to push into the Med.
Austria offers to me that he will not disband his F Alb if I agree to not attack Serbia in coming turn. I inform him that the die is cast and that I cannot. Austria disbands F Alb.

Board Status at start of Y03
Austria- 3 SC (Ser, Vie, Bud)
Italy- 5 SC (Italy, Tun, Tri)
England- 5 SC (England, Nwy, Hol)
France- 4 SC (France, Spa)
Germany- 5 SC (Germany, Bel, Den)
Russia- 6 SC (Russia, Swe, Rum)
Turkey- 5 SC (Turkey, Gre, Bul)
[Por is unclaimed.]

Pre-S03 Negotiation
RT forms a plan to hopefully eliminate Austrian A Ser. RT attempts to persuade Italy to not take Vie as this center had been allocated to Russia. Italy views this agreement as more of a Russo-Turkish agreement which Italy never really bought into. This is also true. RT begins to realize that we're probably going to be facing a strong Italy after the Austrian campaign is over. Plus, Italy is still upset with me about Greece. I continue to propose ways to get Italy into Gre, but warn Italy that if Italy takes Vie, then the Gre deal will be off.
S03 Moves
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Discussion
This turn is a disaster for Austria. There is little Crunkus could do though being attacked by no less than four countries (Germany pitched in with Sil-Boh to deny A Vie a valid retreat. A Ser is saved however by being supported into Rum. I bounce Italy in the Ion Sea.
Wellington appears to really have it in for Germany as he doubly-supports Eng-Bel. This succeeds in spite of the French support for German F Bel. France pushes into the Channel.
It would appear the alliance situation in the West has switched yet again to now be FG vs E.
I am sure that E-R knew each other's moves this turn...so Russia takes this opportunity to snag Nwy from England and backfills with Mos-StP.
(S03 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack MOVE Denmark -> Bounced
Holland SUPPORT English Channel to Belgium -> resolved
English Channel MOVE Belgium -> resolved
North Sea SUPPORT English Channel to Belgium -> resolved
Liverpool MOVE Wales -> resolved
FRANCE
Brest MOVE English Channel -> resolved
Spain HOLD -> resolved
Picardy SUPPORT Belgium to hold -> Supported unit has failed
Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Brest to English Channel -> resolved
ITALY
Ionian Sea MOVE Albania -> resolved
Tunis SUPPORT Naples to Ionian Sea -> Supported unit has failed
Trieste SUPPORT Tyrolia to Vienna -> resolved
Tyrolia MOVE Vienna -> resolved
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
GERMANY
Berlin MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Ruhr SUPPORT Berlin to Kiel -> resolved
Silesia MOVE Bohemia -> Bounced
Denmark HOLD -> resolved
Belgium SUPPORT Brest to English Channel -> Destroyed by F English Channel - Belgium
AUSTRIA
Serbia MOVE Rumania -> resolved
Vienna MOVE Bohemia -> Destroyed by A Tyrolia - Vienna
Galicia SUPPORT Serbia to Rumania -> resolved
TURKEY
Constantinople SUPPORT Bulgaria to hold -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Greece MOVE Serbia -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Eastern Mediterranean to Ionian Sea -> Supported unit has failed
Bulgaria SUPPORT Greece to Serbia -> resolved
RUSSIA
Black Sea MOVE Rumania -> Attack broken by A Serbia - Rumania
Sweden MOVE Norway -> resolved
St. Petersburg (South Coast) MOVE Gulf of Bothnia -> resolved
Warsaw HOLD -> resolved
Rumania MOVE Budapest -> resolved
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> resolved

Pre-F03 Negotiations
Russia informs me that Crunkus has offered to order his A Rum-Ukr and Gal S Russian A Bud; which will result in Austria's elimination from the game. I kinda can't blame Crunkus as the diplomatic structure just hasn't gone his way this game. We decide to trust Austria in this. The situation between RT and I continues to grow frosty. It is around this time that the Juggernaut is formed in earnest as bindlestiff and I begin to routinely expect to receive each other's moves.
I make an attempt to sew distrust of a resurgent France with both Italy and Germany; while at the same time making cautious overtures to France that he and I might work against Italy in the very near future.
F03 Moves
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Discussion
I opt to support myself into Gre and allow Italy into the Ion Sea. Austria really has had enough. Russia kindly vacates the Bla Sea and also locks down all of Scandinavia.
England is able to take Den from Germany. The bad news for England is that FGR are now cooperating against him.
(F03 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack SUPPORT North Sea to Denmark -> resolved
Holland SUPPORT Belgium to hold -> Support cut by A Kiel - Holland
Belgium SUPPORT Holland to hold -> resolved
Wales MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
North Sea MOVE Denmark -> resolved
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Irish Sea -> resolved
Picardy SUPPORT Ruhr to Belgium -> Supported order does not correspond
Spain MOVE Portugal -> resolved
English Channel MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
ITALY
Albania SUPPORT Trieste to hold -> resolved
Tunis SUPPORT Naples to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Trieste SUPPORT Vienna to hold -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Trieste to hold -> resolved
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
GERMANY
Ruhr SUPPORT Kiel to Holland -> Supported unit has failed
Kiel MOVE Holland -> Bounced
Silesia MOVE Bohemia -> resolved
Denmark HOLD -> Destroyed by F North Sea - Denmark
AUSTRIA
Rumania MOVE Ukraine -> resolved
Galicia SUPPORT Budapest to hold -> Support cut by A Warsaw - Galicia
TURKEY
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Attack broken by F Naples - Ionian Sea
Serbia SUPPORT Budapest to hold -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Bulgaria to Greece -> resolved
Bulgaria MOVE Greece -> resolved
RUSSIA
Black Sea MOVE Sevastopol -> resolved
Norway MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
Gulf of Bothnia MOVE Sweden -> resolved
Warsaw MOVE Galicia -> Bounced
Budapest SUPPORT Serbia to hold -> resolved
St. Petersburg MOVE Norway -> Bounced

W03
Image
Board Status at start of Y04
Russia- 8SC (Home4, Bud, Rum, Nwy, Swe);two builds but can only build one unit this turn because of occupied Home SC's
Turkey- 6SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre)
Italy- 6SC (Home3, Tun, Tri, Vie)
England- 6SC (Home3, Bel, Hol, Den)
France- 5SC (Home3, Por, Spa)
Germany- 3SC (Home3); a rough year for Germany as Bel and Den were lost; two units lost during the year due to no retreat
Austria eliminated

Y04 and onward
With the immediate goal of the elimination of Austria having been achieved, this is a delicate time for the RT alliance.
FG are fully engaged against E, but Germany is on the ropes. My Russian ally is chomping at the bit to move on Germany, which is good for me in that he is unlikely planning to ally with Italy against me. But I fear being effectively boxed in now by a strong Italy if I don't continue to get a lot of help from Russia.
My big fear is RI allying against me but I just don't get the impression that they are getting along that well. Russia is still frustrated by Italy's seizure of Vie.
Italy makes proposals to me that we move together against Russia but I anticipate being boxed in by Italy as well should IT go against R. I press Italy that if we do so he should move his fleets immediately towards France as Iberia and Mar open for the taking. Italy is quite reluctant to do so as he naturally fears RT pressing on against him.

Russia and I concoct a bit of a deception though for S04. Italy wants me to move against Russia, so I promise Italy I'll take Rum. This is ok with Russia as he had an 'extra' build last turn he couldn't build. Russia and I also decide to bounce in the Bla Sea to further play this up as a stab. I neglect to inform Italy that I will be supporting the Russian A Bud this turn against an Italian supported attack. ;)

S04 Moves
Image
Discussion
Italy makes supported attacks on both Bud and Gre; both fail. Bounces all around the board pretty much everywhere else.
(S04 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
London MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
Wales MOVE Liverpool -> Bounced
Denmark SUPPORT Skagerrack to North Sea -> Support cut by F Sweden - Denmark
Holland SUPPORT Belgium to hold -> resolved
Belgium SUPPORT Holland to hold -> Support cut by F English Channel - Belgium
FRANCE
Irish Sea MOVE Liverpool -> Bounced
English Channel MOVE Belgium -> Bounced
Picardy SUPPORT English Channel to Belgium -> Supported unit has failed
Brest MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
Portugal MOVE Spain -> resolved
ITALY
Venice MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
Tunis SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Ionian Sea SUPPORT Albania to Greece -> Support cut by F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
Trieste MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Vienna SUPPORT Trieste to Budapest -> Supported unit has failed
Albania MOVE Greece -> Bounced
GERMANY
Ruhr SUPPORT Kiel to hold -> resolved
Kiel SUPPORT Ruhr to hold -> resolved
Bohemia MOVE Munich -> resolved
TURKEY
Bulgaria MOVE Rumania -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Constantinople MOVE Black Sea -> Bounced
Greece HOLD -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Greece to hold -> resolved
Serbia SUPPORT Budapest to hold -> resolved
RUSSIA
St. Petersburg MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Sevastopol MOVE Black Sea -> Bounced
Budapest SUPPORT Warsaw to Galicia -> Support cut by A Trieste - Budapest
Norway MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
Warsaw MOVE Galicia -> resolved
Sweden MOVE Denmark -> Bounced
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> Bounced

Pre-F04 Negotiations
I effectively decide to write-off any chance of working with Italy as Russia and I decide to commit to Italy's destruction. With the West so entangled we have the luxury to time to begin systematically pushing Italy out of Austrian lands. Vie will be the first target.
F04 Moves
Image
Discussion
Vie is taken.
A disaster for England ensues in the West. English F Bel and A Hol are both eliminated due to no retreat. France plays Iri-NAt and Bre-Mid for position.
Italy's A Vie will retreat to Boh only to be removed in the upcoming adjustment phase.
(F04 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
London MOVE English Channel -> resolved
Wales MOVE Liverpool -> resolved
Denmark SUPPORT Skagerrack to North Sea -> Support cut by F Sweden - Denmark
Holland SUPPORT Belgium to hold -> Destroyed by A Kiel - Holland
Belgium SUPPORT Holland to hold -> Destroyed by F English Channel - Belgium
FRANCE
Irish Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
English Channel MOVE Belgium -> resolved
Picardy SUPPORT English Channel to Belgium -> resolved
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
Spain MOVE Gascony -> resolved
ITALY
Venice MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
Tunis SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Ionian Sea HOLD -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Vienna SUPPORT Trieste to Budapest -> Dislodged by A Budapest - Vienna
Albania SUPPORT Venice to Trieste -> Supported unit has failed
GERMANY
Ruhr SUPPORT Kiel to Holland -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Holland -> resolved
Munich MOVE Kiel -> resolved
TURKEY
Rumania MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria (South Coast) -> resolved
Greece HOLD -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Greece to hold -> resolved
Serbia MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
RUSSIA
St. Petersburg MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Sevastopol MOVE Rumania -> Bounced
Budapest MOVE Vienna -> resolved
Norway MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
Galicia SUPPORT Budapest to Vienna -> resolved
Sweden MOVE Denmark -> Bounced
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> Bounced

W04
Image
F, G, T each build a fleet. Russia builds A War. Italian A Boh disbanded.
Board Status at start of Y05
Russia- 8SC (Home4, Bud, Vie, Nwy, Swe)
Turkey- 7SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre, Rum)
Italy- 5SC (Home3, Tun, Tri,)
England- 4SC (Home3, Den)
France- 6SC (Home3, Bel, Por, Spa)
Germany- 4SC (Home3, Hol)

Pre-S05 Negotiations
RT have become effectively joined at the hip-certainly for as long as the Italian campaign will last and it appears likely to be a long one. This turn will be one of gaining position for a Fall attack on Trieste.
France threatens a convoy from Gas into Cly or Lpl and FG are locked into a war of annihilation against E.
Things are certainly going RT's way! 8-)
S05 Moves
Image
Discussion
Hmm, :o or are they?...going RT's way I mean. :o Yep, you guessed it, another one of 'those' turns. I suppose the German fleet build in Kiel last phase should have been telling. At least F and R bounced in the Nrg Sea. England takes point in the attack by snagging Swe. The entire Wehrmacht swings East. French A Gas-Spa with the likely purpose being to lend Italy assistance. It's me an bindlestiff against the world!
The meter is definitely running now on our Italian campaign.
F Swe will retreat to Bot and F Apu to the Adr.
S05 Orders
ENGLAND
Skagerrack SUPPORT Denmark to Sweden -> resolved
Liverpool MOVE Clyde -> resolved
English Channel MOVE London -> resolved
Denmark MOVE Sweden -> resolved
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> Bounced
Belgium SUPPORT English Channel to North Sea -> Supported order does not correspond
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> Bounced
North Atlantic Ocean MOVE Norwegian Sea -> Bounced
Picardy MOVE Brest -> Bounced
Gascony MOVE Marseilles -> resolved
ITALY
Venice MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
Ionian Sea SUPPORT Albania to hold -> Support cut by F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
Albania SUPPORT Venice to Trieste -> Dislodged by A Greece - Albania
Trieste MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
Tunis SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
GERMANY
Holland HOLD -> resolved
Ruhr MOVE Munich -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Berlin -> resolved
Berlin MOVE Baltic Sea -> resolved
TURKEY
Bulgaria (South Coast) MOVE Greece -> resolved
Rumania MOVE Budapest -> resolved
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria (South Coast) -> resolved
Greece MOVE Albania -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Bulgaria (South Coast) to Greece -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Serbia SUPPORT Greece to Albania -> resolved
RUSSIA
Galicia SUPPORT Rumania to Budapest -> resolved
Moscow MOVE St. Petersburg -> Bounced
Vienna MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
Norway MOVE Norwegian Sea -> Bounced
Sevastopol MOVE Rumania -> resolved
St. Petersburg MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Sweden SUPPORT St. Petersburg to Norway -> Dislodged by F Denmark - Sweden
Warsaw MOVE Silesia -> resolved

Pre-F05 Negotiations
The Russian move to Sil last turn is protested against strongly by Germany. This truly was done to get another unit into the Italian fray. A Gal was not moving last spring and A War needed to make headway south. Russia and I make plans to compensate for the loss of Swe by supply center shuffling down south.
Germany feels trapped between a resurgent France and a threatening Russia. Russia and I both attempt to keep Germany somewhat on our side. Offers of Italian centers are made to the Kaiser.
France has no real interest in working with me as long as I remain wedded to Russia.
RT plans to take Tri this turn. It's likely the Russian southern fleet will be scuttled come Winter; another major headache for RT gone.
F05 Moves
Image
Discussion
Trieste falls as Germany halts any further aggression against Russia.
Russia gets a breather in Scandinavia.
France and Germany 'betray' England as France slips into Lpl while Germany retakes Den.
(F05 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack SUPPORT Sweden to hold -> resolved
Clyde SUPPORT North Atlantic Ocean to Norwegian Sea -> Supported order does not correspond
London MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
Sweden HOLD -> resolved
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Irish Sea -> resolved
Belgium MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
Brest MOVE English Channel -> resolved
North Atlantic Ocean MOVE Liverpool -> resolved
Picardy MOVE Belgium -> Bounced
Marseilles HOLD -> resolved
ITALY
Venice MOVE Trieste -> Attack broken by A Albania - Trieste
Ionian Sea HOLD -> resolved
Adriatic Sea SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Tyrolia SUPPORT Venice to Trieste -> Supported unit has failed
Tunis SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
GERMANY
Holland HOLD -> resolved
Munich SUPPORT Tyrolia to hold -> resolved
Berlin SUPPORT Munich to hold -> resolved
Baltic Sea MOVE Denmark -> resolved
TURKEY
Greece MOVE Albania -> resolved
Budapest SUPPORT Albania to Trieste -> resolved
Bulgaria (South Coast) MOVE Greece -> resolved
Albania MOVE Trieste -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Eastern Mediterranean to Ionian Sea -> Supported unit has failed
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> Bounced
Serbia SUPPORT Albania to Trieste -> resolved
RUSSIA
Galicia SUPPORT Silesia to Bohemia -> resolved
Moscow MOVE Livonia -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Albania to Trieste -> resolved
Norway SUPPORT Gulf of Bothnia to Sweden -> Supported unit has failed
Rumania HOLD -> resolved
St. Petersburg SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Gulf of Bothnia MOVE Sweden -> Bounced
Silesia MOVE Bohemia -> resolved

W05
Image
Discussion
England destroys F Swe; Italy destroys A Tyr; Russia destroys F Rum.
France builds F Bre; Germany builds F Kiel; I build F Con.
An agreement is made to return Bud to Russia as Turkey makes gains in Italy. This proves to take much longer than anticipated. Bindlestiff's patience regarding this, and his assent to Turkey having all of Italy, went a long way to prove his commitment to our alliance. I promise to make good any losses he takes up North by ceding centers to him in the South.
France's comeback from such a horrible start is also to be commended.
Germany has gained two centers this turn and has re-established her position.
Board Status at start of Y06
Russia- 7SC (Home4, Rum, Vie, Nwy)
Turkey- 8SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre, Bud, Tri)
Italy- 4SC (Home3, Tun)
England- 3SC (Lon, Edi, Swe)
France- 7SC (Home3, Bel, Por, Spa, Lpl)
Germany- 5SC (Home3, Hol, Den)

Pre-S06 Negotiations
Russia and I debate whether it is best to prop up England or for Russia to try to snatch what he can get. Most of our diplomacy is focused on Germany, attempting to get the Kaiser on our side. Bindlestiff did most of the heavy lifting in this endeavor with the occasional assurances from me to Germany that Russia was being honest.
France rarely replies to any messages I send. There seems little use for me to contact Italy.
S06 Moves
Image
Discussion
Wow! This turn marks the first of major alliance shifts taken by Germany between being on France's side or RT's side. Germany again makes an about face and his armies turn West.
England moves Ska-Nth in an attempt to defend the Home Isles as Russia retakes Swe.
France convoys Pic-Wal spelling doom for England. France's A Mar-Pie arrives right on time to lend aid to Italy.
Unfortunately, Italy NMR's this turn due to unavoidable real-life circumstances. ThomM is a proven reliable player and all parties offer to extend deadlines/assist however possible.
I triply-support myself into the Ionian. Italy's F Ion will retreat to Nap.
Russia's armies Liv & Gal hold, reassuring Germany that no attack from the East is coming as Germany heads West.

This was one of the most exciting, unexpected turns of the game for me. I can remember fist-pumping when I saw the moves process! WTG AleBelly!
(S06 Orders)
ENGLAND
Skagerrack MOVE North Sea -> resolved
London SUPPORT Skagerrack to North Sea -> resolved
Clyde MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
FRANCE
Marseilles MOVE Piedmont -> resolved
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
English Channel CONVOY Picardy to Wales -> resolved
Irish Sea SUPPORT Picardy to Wales -> resolved
Liverpool MOVE Clyde -> resolved
Belgium MOVE North Sea -> Attack broken by F Skagerrack - North Sea
Picardy MOVE Wales -> resolved
ITALY
Ionian Sea HOLD -> Dislodged by F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
Venice HOLD -> resolved
Tunis HOLD -> resolved
Adriatic Sea HOLD -> resolved
GERMANY
Munich MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Helgoland Bight -> resolved
Holland MOVE Ruhr -> resolved
Denmark HOLD -> resolved
Berlin MOVE Munich -> resolved
TURKEY
Constantinople MOVE Aegean Sea -> resolved
Albania SUPPORT Aegean Sea to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Greece SUPPORT Aegean Sea to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Trieste SUPPORT Bohemia to Tyrolia -> resolved
Aegean Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean SUPPORT Aegean Sea to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Budapest SUPPORT Trieste to hold -> resolved
Serbia SUPPORT Albania to hold -> resolved
RUSSIA
Gulf of Bothnia MOVE Sweden -> resolved
Bohemia MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
Galicia HOLD -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Bohemia to Tyrolia -> resolved
Livonia HOLD -> resolved
St. Petersburg MOVE Finland -> resolved
Norway SUPPORT Skagerrack to North Sea -> resolved

Pre-F06 Negotiations
I assume that negotiations have just heated up between Russia and France with the German thrust into French lands. I fear RF striking a deal to team against Germany, finish off England, and turn on me while I'm still tied up in with Italy. It should be noted here that there was evident 'hard feelings' let's say between F and R from the very start of this game. This is not to imply anything untoward. There was public press at game start alluding to some mistrust between them in a prior game. This may, or very well may not, have affected their ability to work together smoothly in this game.
Be that as it may, 3-way correspondence between GTR is begun and we begin sharing ideas for attacking France. Turkey won't be much help in this but I lend my ear.
It's probably safe to conclude that all three of F,G,R are out to eliminate E also :lol: .
F06 Moves
Image
Discussion
The Germans roll into Paris and push into the Nth with Russian support.
France captures Lon and saves Ven by Pie supporting; a bounce in Edi.
Russian armies Liv & Gal Hold this turn also, remarkable patience by bindlestiff. But we don't want to anger our new German ally either.
I begin the systematic, but god-awfully slow, peninsula campaign against Italy.
England's F Lon retreats to Yor. F Nth attempts to retreat to Edi (province wherein a standoff had occurred, so disbanded).
(F06 Orders)
ENGLAND
North Sea MOVE Edinburgh -> Dislodged by F Denmark - North Sea
London HOLD -> Dislodged by F English Channel - London
North Atlantic Ocean MOVE Irish Sea -> resolved
FRANCE
Piedmont SUPPORT Venice to hold -> resolved
Mid-Atlantic Ocean HOLD -> resolved
English Channel MOVE London -> resolved
Irish Sea MOVE Liverpool -> resolved
Clyde MOVE Edinburgh -> Bounced
Belgium MOVE North Sea -> Attack broken by F Denmark - North Sea
Wales SUPPORT English Channel to London -> resolved
ITALY
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> Attack broken by F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
Venice HOLD -> resolved
Tunis SUPPORT Naples to Ionian Sea -> Supported unit has failed
Adriatic Sea SUPPORT Naples to Ionian Sea -> Support cut by F Albania - Adriatic Sea
GERMANY
Burgundy MOVE Paris -> resolved
Helgoland Bight SUPPORT Ruhr to Holland -> resolved
Ruhr MOVE Holland -> resolved
Denmark MOVE North Sea -> resolved
Munich MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
TURKEY
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Eastern Mediterranean to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Albania MOVE Adriatic Sea -> Bounced
Greece SUPPORT Eastern Mediterranean to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> Bounced
Ionian Sea MOVE Apulia -> resolved
Eastern Mediterranean MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Budapest SUPPORT Serbia to Trieste -> Supported unit has failed
Serbia MOVE Trieste -> Bounced
RUSSIA
Sweden SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Tyrolia SUPPORT Trieste to Venice -> Supported unit has failed
Galicia HOLD -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Serbia to Trieste -> Supported unit has failed
Livonia HOLD -> resolved
Finland SUPPORT Sweden to hold -> resolved
Norway SUPPORT Denmark to North Sea -> resolved

W06
Image
England destroys F Iri.
Germany builds A Mun and Russia a F StP(nc).
Board Status at start of Y07
Russia- 8SC (Home4, Rum, Vie, Nwy, Swe)
Turkey- 8SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre, Bud, Tri)
Italy- 4SC (Home3, Tun)
England- 1SC (Edi)
France- 7SC (Bre, Mar, Bel, Por, Spa, Lpl, Lon)
Germany- 6SC (Home3, Hol, Den, Par)

Pre-S07 Negotiations
My in-game notes get spotty for a while here but I'm sure that at this time Russia and I are beginning to discuss possible endgame situations. Are we better off sticking with Germany and going for a 3-way? Should Russia stab Germany soonish and RT attempt a 3-way with France? Is a 2-way possible?
I am tempted by the 2-way but I realize I have very little experience with a game going this far along. I rather naively at first think it will be doable, but the "nuts and bolts" of getting there bother me. How do you accomplish it while at same time avoiding the possibility of your ally soloing.
I bury my head in the sand and focus on Italy, while urging Russia to refrain from attacking Germany until I have reduced Italy.
S07 Moves
Image
Discussion
I finally get into Tri. Italy NMR's again this turn but it has no real effect on the moves' adjudication. France's A Pie is forced to move back to Mar and Italy's F Adr is destroyed due to no retreat.
German A Hol dislodges the French F Bel. France prevents German A Par-Gas.
The Russian Gal-Ukr was done to assuage my fear that Russia might be contemplating stabbing me.
Italy did not submit a retreat order for his A Ven, so it was unfortunately destroyed. The French F Bel retreats to Pic.
(S07 Orders)
ENGLAND
Yorkshire MOVE Edinburgh -> resolved
FRANCE
Clyde SUPPORT Yorkshire to Edinburgh -> resolved
Liverpool MOVE Irish Sea -> resolved
Belgium MOVE North Sea -> Dislodged by A Holland - Belgium
London MOVE English Channel -> resolved
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Gascony -> Bounced
Piedmont MOVE Marseilles -> resolved
Wales MOVE London -> resolved
ITALY
Naples HOLD -> resolved
Venice HOLD -> Dislodged by A Trieste - Venice
Adriatic Sea HOLD -> Destroyed by F Apulia - Adriatic Sea
Tunis HOLD -> resolved
GERMANY
Burgundy SUPPORT Holland to Belgium -> resolved
North Sea SUPPORT Norway to Norwegian Sea -> Support cut by F Belgium - North Sea
Holland MOVE Belgium -> resolved
Helgoland Bight MOVE Denmark -> resolved
Munich HOLD -> resolved
Paris MOVE Gascony -> Bounced
TURKEY
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Greece SUPPORT Ionian Sea to hold -> resolved
Albania SUPPORT Apulia to Adriatic Sea -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> resolved
Apulia MOVE Adriatic Sea -> resolved
Serbia MOVE Trieste -> resolved
Ionian Sea SUPPORT Apulia to Adriatic Sea -> resolved
Budapest SUPPORT Serbia to Trieste -> resolved
RUSSIA
Sweden MOVE Skagerrack -> resolved
Galicia MOVE Ukraine -> resolved
Norway MOVE Norwegian Sea -> resolved
Tyrolia SUPPORT Trieste to Venice -> resolved
Vienna SUPPORT Serbia to Trieste -> resolved
Finland MOVE Sweden -> resolved
Livonia HOLD -> resolved
St. Petersburg (North Coast) MOVE Norway -> resolved

Pre-F07 Negotiations
I am afforded a "cheap" opportunity by the disbandment of Italy's A Ven due to no retreat order given. Russia and I take turns over next few seasons pledging our fealty to the alliance whenever either of us has a crisis of faith. Things sure do seem to be going RT's way.
F07 Moves
Image
Discussion
I write my moves assuming ThomM will be back; turns out he wasn't and he is unfortunately auto-surrendered at end of F07 Movement phase.
Germany gets an army into Gas as France had to defend Par. Russia pushes into the Pie and Tyr and moves back into Gal.
Lots of bounces with the fleets up North.
(F07 Orders)
ENGLAND
Edinburgh MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
FRANCE
Clyde MOVE Norwegian Sea -> Bounced
London HOLD -> resolved
Marseilles MOVE Burgundy -> Bounced
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Brest -> resolved
English Channel SUPPORT Picardy to Belgium -> Support cut by F North Sea - English Channel
Irish Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> Bounced
Picardy MOVE Belgium -> Bounced
ITALY
Naples HOLD -> resolved
Tunis HOLD -> resolved
GERMANY
Denmark MOVE North Sea -> Bounced
North Sea MOVE English Channel -> Bounced
Munich MOVE Burgundy -> Bounced
Burgundy MOVE Gascony -> resolved
Paris MOVE Picardy -> Bounced
Belgium HOLD -> resolved
TURKEY
Albania MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Adriatic Sea MOVE Apulia -> resolved
Greece SUPPORT Albania to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Budapest MOVE Trieste -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Albania to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Ionian Sea MOVE Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Venice MOVE Tuscany -> resolved
RUSSIA
Tyrolia MOVE Piedmont -> resolved
Livonia HOLD -> resolved
Norwegian Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> Bounced
Sweden MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Vienna MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
Ukraine MOVE Galicia -> resolved
Skagerrack SUPPORT Denmark to North Sea -> Supported unit has failed
Norway MOVE Norwegian Sea -> Bounced

Pre-W07 Phase
I post to the forum advertising for a new Italy. Quite soon one eye picks up the position and immediately begins making things entertaining. He offers to assist RT against France but I've rather got my blood lust up to finally take out Italy. This was definitely a mistake on my part, not really considering his offer. Things might have gone differently had I taken him up and just guarded his home centers while he moved his fleets against France. On the other hand, the less survivors to deal with regarding a draw proposal the better.
Speaking of draws...France graciously offers a 3-way draw to GRT during the W07 phase. I did not take this as seriously as bindlestiff did, and now I certainly wish I had. Russia would have acceded to the draw had I done so. I wasn't necessarily dead set against it, but my attention was so focused on getting Rom & Nap that I didn't give the proposal due thought. Besides, I knew there would be plenty of time to accept one once I had my two centers...right?
The point was moot anyway as our new Italy immediately rejected the draw :lol: . Amusingly, Italy also proposes a 2-way for E-I. It is rejected.
Unfortunately, Germany did not take kindly to my hesitation about accepting the 3-way draw. Quite soon Germany would make his displeasure about my reluctance to accept the 3-way known.
W07
Image
France destroys F Pic.
Germany builds A Kie and Italy builds F Rom. I build A Con.
Board Status at start of Y08
Russia- 8SC (Home4, Rum, Vie, Nwy, Swe)
Turkey- 9SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre, Bud, Tri, Ven)
Italy- 3SC (Rom, Nap, Tun)
England- 1SC (Edi)
France- 6SC (Bre, Mar, Por, Spa, Lpl, Lon)
Germany- 7SC (Home3, Bel, Hol, Den, Par)

Pre-S08 Negotiations
RTG decide to attempt the convoy of Russian A Swe-Yor. I'll get my damn two Italian centers.
Russia and I talk seriously about when his armies need to move against Germany. We decide to wait at most one more year until France is really hurting.
S08 Moves
Image
Discussion
Germany drops the hammer! AleBelly pulls off his second, and final, big alliance switch this game. Russia and I are both completely surprised and baffled. Germany writes a multi-message to us explaining his reasons. Turkey's expression of reluctance to accept the previous 3-way draw is the deciding factor.
The standoff between RT in Bud is arranged.
Russian F Nrg Sea is dislodged and retreats to Bar. Russia's F Ska is destroyed!
My F Tyn retreats to Wes.
Once we recover our bearings, overtures are made to France to immediately join us against Germany. They are not successful.
(S08 Orders)
ENGLAND
Edinburgh SUPPORT Clyde to Norwegian Sea -> resolved
FRANCE
Clyde MOVE Norwegian Sea -> resolved
English Channel SUPPORT North Sea to hold -> resolved
Brest MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
Irish Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> Bounced
London HOLD -> resolved
Marseilles HOLD -> resolved
ITALY
Tunis SUPPORT Rome to Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Rome MOVE Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Naples MOVE Ionian Sea -> Destroyed by F Ionian Sea - Naples
GERMANY
North Sea SUPPORT Denmark to Skagerrack -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Denmark -> resolved
Paris MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
Gascony HOLD -> resolved
Denmark MOVE Skagerrack -> resolved
Munich HOLD -> resolved
Belgium MOVE Ruhr -> resolved
TURKEY
Greece MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Greece to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Ionian Sea MOVE Naples -> resolved
Constantinople MOVE Bulgaria -> resolved
Tuscany MOVE Rome -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Apulia SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Naples -> resolved
Venice SUPPORT Tuscany to Rome -> resolved
Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Naples -> Dislodged by F Rome - Tyrrhenian Sea
RUSSIA
Norway MOVE Norwegian Sea -> Attack broken by F Clyde - Norwegian Sea
Tyrolia HOLD -> resolved
Norwegian Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> Dislodged by F Clyde - Norwegian Sea
Piedmont MOVE Marseilles -> Bounced
Skagerrack CONVOY Sweden to Yorkshire -> Destroyed by F Denmark - Skagerrack
Galicia MOVE Budapest -> Bounced
Livonia HOLD -> resolved
Sweden MOVE Yorkshire -> Convoy cancelled

Pre-F08 Negotiations
Anticipating Russian losses in Scandinavia, I offer to compensate Russia with Ven or Bud. It's made clear that any Northern center he loses will be replaced by one down South.
Russia graciously informs me of French-German overtures that Russia stab me and seek a 3-way with FG. Their offer to Russia basically promises no attack by FG in the North while Russia repositions to hit me. Russia kindly assures me he has no intention whatsoever of doing so. I am a bit worried because the temptation for Russia to do so will increase as he loses ground in Scandinavia.
I compose a fake offer to FG that I stab Russia. I show this draft to Russia and we decide not to send it just yet...we end up never doing so.
F08 Moves
Image
Discussion
Wellington finally succumbs.
The rush to occupy the Pie through Pru line is on as Germany runs to defend the homeland.
France takes the Wes and Russia is given Ven so that Russia can build two units to bolster the North.
Italy's F Tyn retreats to GoL. My F Wes retreats to Naf.
(F08 Orders)
ENGLAND
Edinburgh MOVE Clyde -> resolved
FRANCE
Mid-Atlantic Ocean MOVE Western Mediterranean -> resolved
English Channel MOVE Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
Irish Sea MOVE North Atlantic Ocean -> resolved
Norwegian Sea SUPPORT London to Edinburgh -> resolved
Marseilles MOVE Spain -> resolved
London MOVE Edinburgh -> resolved
ITALY
Tunis SUPPORT Mid-Atlantic Ocean to Western Mediterranean -> resolved
Tyrrhenian Sea MOVE Ionian Sea -> Dislodged by F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
GERMANY
Gascony MOVE Burgundy -> resolved
North Sea CONVOY London to Edinburgh -> resolved
Skagerrack MOVE Norway -> Bounced
Burgundy MOVE Ruhr -> resolved
Ruhr MOVE Kiel -> resolved
Munich MOVE Tyrolia -> Attack broken by A Venice - Tyrolia
Denmark SUPPORT North Sea to hold -> Cannot support square Nth
TURKEY
Ionian Sea MOVE Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
Aegean Sea SUPPORT Apulia to Ionian Sea -> resolved
Rome HOLD -> resolved
Bulgaria MOVE Serbia -> resolved
Apulia MOVE Ionian Sea -> resolved
Venice MOVE Tyrolia -> resolved
Western Mediterranean MOVE Tunis -> Dislodged by F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean
Trieste SUPPORT Venice to Tyrolia -> resolved
Naples SUPPORT Ionian Sea to Tyrrhenian Sea -> resolved
RUSSIA
Piedmont MOVE Venice -> resolved
Galicia MOVE Silesia -> resolved
Barents Sea SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Tyrolia MOVE Bohemia -> resolved
Norway SUPPORT Sweden to hold -> Support cut by F Skagerrack - Norway
Sweden SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Livonia MOVE Prussia -> resolved

W08
Image
Russia gets those two badly needed builds- F StP(nc) and A Mos. I build a F Smy (might should have been an army).
France builds F Mar. (A nice move on France's part in the fall with Mar-Spa thus allowing this build).
Italy removes F GoL.
RIP Wellington.
Board Status at start of Y09
Russia- 9SC (Home4, Ven, Rum, Vie, Nwy, Swe)
Turkey- 10SC (Home3, Bul, Ser, Gre, Bud, Tri, Rom, Nap)
Italy- SC (Tun)
France- 7SC (Bre, Mar, Por, Spa, Lpl, Lon, Edi)
Germany- 7SC (Home3, Bel, Hol, Den, Par)

Pre-S09 Negotiations
For a fleeting moment I consider stabbing Russia. Looking at the above image I could easily take Ven, Vie and Rum this turn. The problem is Russia is simply too strong. I doubt I would've survived long against RFG. Plus, as bindlestiff and I had been allies basically the entire game, and staunch allies at that, I simply couldn't stomach it.
We continue to lobby Germany to reverse course and join us again, or France to attack Germany. We're basically flapping our jaws...well, me mostly.
RT decides to do a doubly-supported attack on Mun and Turkey will attempt F NAf-Tun with dual support.
S09 Moves
Image
Discussion
Neither of our 50/50 attacks succeed. We're feeling a bit down about the prospects for this game now. A 4-way draw appears inevitable as neither Russia nor I will entertain the notion of stabbing each other, and FG appear solid now too.
I resignedly propose a 4-way draw immediately post-adjudication during the F09 phase (there were no Spring retreats).
Russia accepts quickly of course. I have too since this game is open ballot. No response from FG as spring turns to fall.
(S09 Orders)
FRANCE
Norwegian Sea CONVOY Edinburgh to Norway -> resolved
North Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Norwegian Sea to hold -> resolved
Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Tunis to North Africa -> Supported unit has failed
Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Tunis to North Africa -> Supported unit has failed
Marseilles MOVE Gulf of Lyons -> resolved
Spain MOVE Marseilles -> resolved
Edinburgh MOVE Norway -> Bounced
ITALY
Tunis MOVE North Africa -> Bounced
GERMANY
Skagerrack SUPPORT North Sea to Norway -> Supported order does not correspond
Ruhr SUPPORT Munich to hold -> resolved
Kiel MOVE Berlin -> Bounced
Denmark MOVE Sweden -> Bounced
North Sea SUPPORT Edinburgh to Norway -> Supported unit has failed
Burgundy SUPPORT Munich to hold -> resolved
Munich SUPPORT Kiel to Berlin -> Support cut by A Bohemia - Munich
TURKEY
Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT North Africa to Tunis -> Supported unit has failed
Aegean Sea MOVE Greece -> resolved
Serbia MOVE Trieste -> resolved
Smyrna MOVE Aegean Sea -> resolved
Naples SUPPORT Tyrrhenian Sea to hold -> resolved
Rome MOVE Tuscany -> resolved
Trieste MOVE Venice -> resolved
Ionian Sea SUPPORT North Africa to Tunis -> Supported unit has failed
North Africa MOVE Tunis -> Bounced
Tyrolia SUPPORT Bohemia to Munich -> Supported unit has failed
RUSSIA
Prussia MOVE Berlin -> Bounced
St. Petersburg (South Coast) MOVE Gulf of Bothnia -> resolved
Bohemia MOVE Munich -> Bounced
Norway SUPPORT Sweden to hold -> Support cut by A Edinburgh - Norway
Barents Sea SUPPORT Norway to hold -> resolved
Silesia SUPPORT Bohemia to Munich -> Supported unit has failed
Venice MOVE Piedmont -> resolved
Sweden SUPPORT Norway to hold -> Support cut by A Denmark - Sweden
Moscow MOVE Livonia -> resolved
Last edited by Shyvve on 26 Mar 2017, 07:23, edited 8 times in total.
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Germany's perspective 1901-1902

Postby AleBelly » 25 Mar 2017, 19:29

Chiming in to offer my perspective as the German player. I haven't been playing Diplomacy for long, but this was by far my most enjoyable game to date. This was the first time I have played Germany, so was a bit dismayed to do so against such skilled players. Interestingly enough, I joined another game on the site not long after this one and drew Germany again. Results from that game colored this one in terms of possibilities.

To copy Shyvve's format...

My Objective(s) in this Game
1. Primary objective- Survive. I had played a game or two here online and a couple at webdip. I knew enough from these games that Germany is vulnerable from all sides. I would have to be on my toes.
2. Secondary objective- Take advantage of this opportunity. Interact with all players and remain flexible in alliances. Learn.

It turns out that I really enjoyed playing Germany, as I had a hand in virtually all discussions. As will become obvious, I had to do so with a healthy dose of paranoia, which I think served me well.

Initial Impressions and Pregame Negotiations

This will be a fun group - some enjoyable banter in Public Press

Turkey's posting of rankings did impact discussions in the west. England, Italy and Germany discuss taking out the skilled French nation quickly. The rankings suggest to me in a different direction - machiara has considerable past success with not too many solos. Seems like a good potential partner for an alliance. However, the rankings have little influence on my decision. Italy and England seem committed to eliminating France. I agree, but keep my options open and explore an alliance with France against England, who I see as a more troublesome long-term neighbor.

I make nice with Russia and Austria. However, Russia's offers seem decidedly pro-Russian. I now have a wary eye on the Cossack.

I exchange pleasantries with Turkey. Little we can do right now directly together, but we probe each other for information.

Spring 1901 moves

The bounce in Bur is pre-arranged, and allows me to show anti-France sentiment to England and Italy, keeping my options open. I note that England and Italy carry through with their moves, increasing their credibility in my eyes.

I move my fleet to Holland to show Russia I have no designs on Sweden. I think this is a bit of a blunder, as later in the game I would have dearly loved a fleet in Denmark instead of an army.

Elsewhere, no action in the Black Sea suggests a Jugg, but perhaps still too early to tell. Austria seems to be in trouble, picking a fight with Italy while Turkey and Russia make aggressive moves towards him.

Fall 1901

Negotiations
Austria is cranky, mainly because I did not disclose my plans regarding Sweden when he asked. This was an oversight on my part, and certainly harmed our relations. Austria is also angry with Italy, it appears, and this could spell trouble.

France asks for help into Belgium. I do not commit...Meanwhile, Italy and England suggest eliminating France quickly to focus on a potential Jugg. I'm not sure this is the best path forward.

I converse with Turkey, probing for information. We talk much, but say little.

F01 moves

I deny France Belgium via bounce. I am able to take Denmark, getting me to 5 builds. I needed this, as I'm extended in several directions. My Bavarian army moves to Silesia as a defense against potential Russia hostility. I know this could cause issues, but it is German land, after all. Austria surprisingly moves west, not the last time he will surprise me.

I am surprised to see Turkey give up Bulgaria, and grow ever more suspicious of a Jugg.

F01 builds

I build an army in Berlin. I'm forced to build another in Munich due to Austria's unpredictability...and its presence in Tyrolia.

Russia's build in SC St.P. raises suspicions that England and Russia are working together. This colors my negotiations with England.

Spring 1902

Negotiations

I immediately reach out to France to explain my reasoning behind the Belgian bounce. I promise not to breach France's borders and (I think) Italy and I agree to look eastward and end our anti-French aggression. I have a pretty deep trust for Italy now.

England, meanwhile, is insistent on gaining Belgium as a "foothold on the continent." I don't see why he isn't content to take my help into Sweden, and conclude he is not committed to fighting the Jugg. He still tries to convince me to attack Russia in central Europe. I suspect E/R/T and he is simply trying to weaken my position.

Russia raises an alarm at my Berlin build. He explains that he promised England he would only build a fleet in S StP, and will use it to defend Sweden. This fails to make me feel any better, but does confirm cooperation between Russia and England. I promise not to advance east, and I don't.

Italy, Austria and I appear to patch things up. Enough so that I trust Munich won't be attacked, enabling me to take defensive moves against England.

Turkey asks about my Silesian army. And not for the last time.

S02 moves

I/A/G begin to construct a defensive line against the Jugg. The replacement of a fleet with an army in Rumania spells trouble for Central Europe, though the move of a fleet to the Black Sea raises the hope of a stab on Turkey and disarray in the east.

Fall 1902

Negotiations

France leads the coordination of anti-Jugg moves. England is notably absent from these discussions it's widely assumed that he has cast his lot with R/T...especially as he castigates Italy and me for not pressing the attack on France. He also seeks to diminish the threat of the Jugg.

Turkey tries to convince me to attack Italy and Austria, which at the time insults my intelligence. I don't need enemies on all sides.

Relations with Austria become a disaster. At some point he becomes angry that I have been conversing with all nations, and that we aren't more pro-French (to be honest, I'm not completely sure what set him off). I think the Austrian player is just one that I have problems communicating with, and I don't solely blame him. But my concerns are deep enough that I send a note to Italy where I suggest that we should get rid of Austria, as he's 'unreliable.' The only problem is, I send it to Austria !! :oops: :!:

I think we manage to move on and coordinate moves, but this was a huge diplomatic blunder.

F02 moves

I am genuinely surprised by Italy's stab on Austria, as we did not agree on this. This was unfortunate, as I have now committed to an anti-Russia stance. France demands an explanation, which I will cover in S03 negotiations.

England finally tips its anti-German hand. I congratulate him on a brilliant and unexpected convoy into Holland - I had been bracing for a Belgian attack. Denmark is doomed, but the Nor-SKA shows an English trust with Russia. Russia, meanwhile retreats from BAL which I like. Perhaps there's room for negotiation? France covering Brest makes me worry less about the possibility of England and France teaming up on me.

I am disappointed to see the absence of a Russian stab on Turkey. I have enjoyed conversing with the Turkish player, but given the disarray between Austria, Germany, and Italy I am concerned that a unified Jugg will run roughshod over central Europe.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby Shyvve » 25 Mar 2017, 20:45

AleBelly wrote:Turkey's posting of rankings did impact discussions in the west. England, Italy and Germany discuss taking out the skilled French nation quickly. The rankings suggest to me in a different direction - machiara has considerable past success with not too many solos. Seems like a good potential partner for an alliance. However, the rankings have little influence on my decision. Italy and England seem committed to eliminating France. I agree, but keep my options open and explore an alliance with France against England, who I see as a more troublesome long-term neighbor.

I believe Machiara's ranking at time I checked stats was like 1800+, 4 Solos in 18 games. This impressed the hell outta me! :shock:

AleBelly wrote:I exchange pleasantries with Turkey. Little we can do right now directly together, but we probe each other for information.

I don't recall exactly but I'm sure I asked one of G or R about any decision being made as to whether Swe would be contested to get a feel for how the North was shaking out.

AleBelly wrote:Spring 1901 moves

The bounce in Bur is pre-arranged, and allows me to show anti-France sentiment to England and Italy, keeping my options open. I note that England and Italy carry through with their moves, increasing their credibility in my eyes.

I move my fleet to Holland to show Russia I have no designs on Sweden. I think this is a bit of a blunder, as later in the game I would have dearly loved a fleet in Denmark instead of an army.

Elsewhere, no action in the Black Sea suggests a Jugg, but perhaps still too early to tell. Austria seems to be in trouble, picking a fight with Italy while Turkey and Russia make aggressive moves towards him.

I was elated to see some A-I angst right off the bat. Scandinavia seems well hashed out and agreed to by E-G-R.

AleBelly wrote:Fall 1901

Negotiations
Austria is cranky, mainly because I did not disclose my plans regarding Sweden when he asked. This was an oversight on my part, and certainly harmed our relations. Austria is also angry with Italy, it appears, and this could spell trouble.

I would wager that Austria wasn't so much angry at Italy (after all Austria did move to Venice) but this move resulted more from frustration on Crunkus' part that neither of R or T appeared committed to working with A.

AleBelly wrote:I converse with Turkey, probing for information. We talk much, but say little.

I found conversing with you a pleasant experience. I think we have a complementary communication style. Most of our early messaging was of the bantering/cajoling nature but having established a good rapport early in the game served us well down the line.

AleBelly wrote:F01 moves

I deny France Belgium via bounce. I am able to take Denmark, getting me to 5 builds. I needed this, as I'm extended in several directions. My Bavarian army moves to Silesia as a defense against potential Russia hostility. I know this could cause issues, but it is German land, after all. Austria surprisingly moves west, not the last time he will surprise me.

I am surprised to see Turkey give up Bulgaria, and grow ever more suspicious of a Jugg.

Austria's choice of F Tri-Ven in S01 meant he didn't have the supported attack on Gre in F01. I felt comfortable that A/R would not cooperate and support an attack into Bul, so I felt I had nothing to lose by Bul-Gre. I'd at least bounce Austria, or even Italy in the unlikely event Italy wrote Ion-Gre. I'm surprised my Bul-Gre succeeded.

AleBelly wrote:F01 builds

I build an army in Berlin. I'm forced to build another in Munich due to Austria's unpredictability...and its presence in Tyrolia.

Russia's build in SC St.P. raises suspicions that England and Russia are working together. This colors my negotiations with England.

That Russian build raised my eyebrows too. I think it was this that prompted bindlestiff's revelation to me about the details of his agreement with England about Nwy/StP.

AleBelly wrote:S02 moves

I/A/G begin to construct a defensive line against the Jugg. The replacement of a fleet with an army in Rumania spells trouble for Central Europe, though the move of a fleet to the Black Sea raises the hope of a stab on Turkey and disarray in the east.

I was basically nail-biting the entire time that Russian fleet was in the Black...which seemed like forever!

AleBelly wrote:Fall 1902

Negotiations

France leads the coordination of anti-Jugg moves. England is notably absent from these discussions it's widely assumed that he has cast his lot with R/T...especially as he castigates Italy and me for not pressing the attack on France. He also seeks to diminish the threat of the Jugg.

Turkey tries to convince me to attack Italy and Austria, which at the time insults my intelligence. I don't need enemies on all sides.

I thought with an Italian army in Tyr and an Austrian army in Boh that now might be a good time to approach Germany about attacking, or at least defending against, one of them. I wanted that German A Sil turned any way but against Russia so R/T could concentrate on Austria.

AleBelly wrote:Relations with Austria become a disaster. At some point he becomes angry that I have been conversing with all nations, and that we aren't more pro-French (to be honest, I'm not completely sure what set him off). I think the Austrian player is just one that I have problems communicating with, and I don't solely blame him. But my concerns are deep enough that I send a note to Italy where I suggest that we should get rid of Austria, as he's 'unreliable.' The only problem is, I send it to Austria !! :oops: :!:

I think we manage to move on and coordinate moves, but this was a huge diplomatic blunder.

Oh man! This hasn't happened to me YET but it almost has and I'm sure it will.

AleBelly wrote:F02 moves

I am genuinely surprised by Italy's stab on Austria, as we did not agree on this. This was unfortunate, as I have now committed to an anti-Russia stance. France demands an explanation, which I will cover in S03 negotiations.

R/T both were negotiating heavily with Italy during '02 to make an attack on Austria also. The idea of an RIT was discussed (although I'm not sure how that works out for Turkey; neither did Italy to ThomM's credit). He was quite reluctant to accelerate Austria's demise without a lot of assurances from us that Italy wouldn't be next.

AleBelly wrote:England finally tips its anti-German hand. I congratulate him on a brilliant and unexpected convoy into Holland - I had been bracing for a Belgian attack. Denmark is doomed, but the Nor-SKA shows an English trust with Russia. Russia, meanwhile retreats from BAL which I like. Perhaps there's room for negotiation? France covering Brest makes me worry less about the possibility of England and France teaming up on me.

Not quite sure what Wellington was up to here, other than gaining his next build. England sure kept things volatile in the Western Triangle.

AleBelly wrote:I am disappointed to see the absence of a Russian stab on Turkey. I have enjoyed conversing with the Turkish player, but given the disarray between Austria, Germany, and Italy I am concerned that a unified Jugg will run roughshod over central Europe.

I am relieved! But the ensuing 'blunder' about Russia's retreat from Gal really caused me concern.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby AleBelly » 26 Mar 2017, 03:17

Shyvve wrote:
AleBelly wrote:I converse with Turkey, probing for information. We talk much, but say little.

I found conversing with you a pleasant experience. I think we have a complementary communication style. Most of our early messaging was of the bantering/cajoling nature but having established a good rapport early in the game served us well down the line.


Agreed. One of my takeaways from this game was frequent communication is important. And reading messages carefully is too - my failure to do so harmed my relationship with Austria.

Shyvve wrote:
AleBelly wrote:S02 moves

I/A/G begin to construct a defensive line against the Jugg. The replacement of a fleet with an army in Rumania spells trouble for Central Europe, though the move of a fleet to the Black Sea raises the hope of a stab on Turkey and disarray in the east.

I was basically nail-biting the entire time that Russian fleet was in the Black...which seemed like forever!


I was feeling plenty of paranoia during the game, and I remember trying to stoke some in Turkey by asking about that frequently. Didn't work, though, and I soon gave up!

Spring 1903

Negotiations

I am truly in a bind, and am thrown a lifeline - by Russia who I assume is looking to expand in the north. He is quite straightforward, looking for the better deal between England and myself. At this point I'm prepared to make a Faustian bargain, so I propose a rather detailed plan that results in Russian gains in Scandinavia. I'm pretty sure that England won't do this, and to my delight Russia agrees. I've mentioned before that I enjoyed playing with all players in this game - and found bindlestiff particularly easy to work with.

Italy reaches out to ask if we are still allies. I hope so, and intend to be, but in my weakened position can do little for it. ThomM was also quite easy to work with.

Austria becomes apoplectic when finding that I have conversed with France. He is certain that Italy will attack me next, and that Italy and France are as thick as thieves. This effectively ends communications. I would be interested in hearing from Crunkus how our relations became so poor. If I offended him or communicated unclearly, I'd like to know exactly what I did. I block his expected retreat into Bohemia, hoping to get him out of the game as quickly as possible due to his unpredictable moves.

I coordinate with France against England.

S 03 moves

Franco-German efforts to retain Belgium are unsuccessful, but I feel I only need bide my time as France enters the English Channel and Russia executes our plan. I hope that England's end is nigh. But my end might be nigh-er. I wish for a fleet in place of my Danish army, but my 1901 moves have left me a Danish army with no way to attack my enemies.

Fall 1903

Negotiations

I am in trouble and negotiating from a position of weakness, now down to 4 SCs. Turkey's interest in my Silesian army continues to grow, but it would be stupid of me to attack Russia at this point, as he is all that stands between me and elimination at the hands of England.

In fact, Russia agrees to break support for the move I predict (F SKA-Den) move by moving F Nor-NTH.

France and I agree on principle in Germany retaking one of the lowland countries.

Italy contacts England in a three-way communication to urge England to stop attacking Germany and focus on Russia. England responds by demanding Germany attack Russia in a manner England was unwilling to do a year previously. I am in no mood to appease England at this point, so those conversations go nowhere, and England wonders aloud at how Italy has benefitted from German friendship. He has a point, though our mutual non-agression has served us both well in my opinion.

F 03 moves

Upon seeing the results, I'm initially incensed at France's failure to input the proper orders to enable me to take Holland. However, I go back and review our messages and realize we were never clear on the plan. It was my fault. I also miscalculated - England actually WAS willing to vacate the North Sea and moved NTH-Den instead of SKA-Den. Score another point for England's tactical ingenuity.

Austria, as promised, cedes his territories to Russia. An unfortunate event.

Russia stands its ground on the eastern front, for which I am grateful. I have moved back to Bohemia to appease Russia and offer support for Italy's unit in Vienna, though I fear Italy's fortunes are beginning to fall. Russia vacates the Black Sea, and it's now a certainty that Turkey and Russia are working together.

Shyvve wrote:
Pre-F03 Negotiations
I make an attempt to sew distrust of a resurgent France with both Italy and Germany; while at the same time making cautious overtures to France that he and I might work against Italy in the very near future.


At this point, I am still enjoying conversing with Turkey, though I read each of his messages through the prism of the Juggernaut. I assume his communications are meant to destabilize any alliances in the west.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby Shyvve » 26 Mar 2017, 07:24

The End
Pre-F09 Negotiations
Russia and I decide to try a singly-supported attack on Ber this time. I propose to do a "friendly attack" on Russian A Pie to eliminate it and allow Russia to either rebuild up North or absorb the loss of a Scandinavian center, likely to be Nwy. I try something different to get Tunis this time also. The draw proposal is still active with only R-T having accepted.
F09 Moves
Image
Discussion
Well, ya win some, lose some. RT win both this time as we gain both Tun and Ber, but lose Nwy.
Now I'm wishing I hadn't reacted in such knee-jerk fashion at end of the Spring turn and proposed the 4-way draw.

Germany accepts the draw sometime after the F09 moves process.
France and Italy have not yet voted.
Russia proposes a new 3-way draw for RGT which France quickly rejects.
France accepts the pending 4-way roughly 36 hours after Germany did. The only holdup now is our new, single SC Italian player...he agrees to the draw about 48 hours after France did.
Italy, even though he would be eliminated as soon as the F09 Adj. phase completed, could have rejected the draw and forced us to play on. I am unsure now whether I wanted him to or not, honestly, as things swung RT's way that last turn.
(The draw stayed on the table a long time due to "no weekends" exceptions coupled with the turn the draw was proposed, a Fall turn).

Summary
So, that's basically it...from my point of view. For those of you wondering, a 4-way draw with basically blank statistics netted me about +60 ratings points.
What could I have done better?
-Considered more carefully one eye's offer (new Italy) to allow him to live and work with us against France.
-I definitely should not have let on to a rather unwilling partner, Germany, that I was waffling about accepting France's proposed 3-way draw for RTG.
-Maybe stabbed Russia...but I truly think it would have been me against the world then and would not have turned out so good.

The Good
-Supposedly the Juggernaut is a difficult thing to successfully manage. I'm really too naive to know. I will say that bindlestiff and I never had any real issues once we got through the first four turns or so. We each invested a lot in making sure we knew who was going where and what our longer term goals were.
-I have to give AleBelly the MVP of this game as he certainly made it the most exciting over the last few turns. I thought he did well coming back from a 3SC situation in the mid-game.
-Wellington, you were unpredictable to say the least. But you hung in there until almost the end.
-ThomM and Crunkus, I enjoyed our discussions and there were possibilities for us to work together. I cast my lot with Russia though so...there will be other opportunities.
-Machiara, came back from a really tough start. And came back again later in the game when Germany was really pressuring him. A well-played game. I very much doubt I would have survived such an unfriendly start.

Please add your thoughts and comments if you care to.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby AleBelly » 26 Mar 2017, 18:35

Thanks for a great write-up, Shyvve.

I'm going to try to be more brief in my comments that I have the first three years.

1904

I (Germany) am in pretty big trouble. Down to 3 SCs, I reluctantly leave Italy to its own devices and work with France to expel England from the lowlands. Luckily, Russia and Turkey are occupied with Italy in the east and England and Russia are entangled in Scandinavia and I can devote all forces to the effort. The job requires a whole year and results with France and I each gaining a build.

1905

A very busy year diplomatically for Germany.

The west finally gets its shit together...at least for a little while. England and France reach out, and after quite a few back-and-forths we decide to coordinate. There are many sticking points - I insist on a reduced English naval presence on German borders, England wants to keep Denmark, etc. We work things out and push east in the Spring, putting together a united front. Russia and I exchange messages expressing disappointment in the others' actions. I note that I stay only in my home territories and have not made any aggressive moves.

In pre-Fall negotiations, France suggests stabbing England. It takes little convincing to pull me on board, so we take Denmark and Liverpool. I feel slightly guilty, but I can't have a naval fleet at my back as I push east, and France needs to be able to turn south to face Turkey in the Med. I make up with Russia, assuring him I have no intent to attack him (which is true). He offers Sweden. France and I coordinate moves with Italy. It's worth noting that France offers to move into Burgundy, which inflames German paranoia. Italy and I convince him to move into Marseilles instead to support Italy, but I'm watching my back for a stab.

1906

Italy is sure to fall. I look several seasons ahead. France is sure to take all three English SCs, and I will be surrounded in the north by French and Russian navies. Germany, meanwhile, has little prospect for growth. Before Spring moves, Russia and I exchange many messages.

I'm now at the point where I have to choose between two bad options.
1) Continue to ally with France. I'm virtually certain this ends in a stab, the end of Germany and a F/T/R draw or donnybrook. But I see virtually no chance of a good German outcome.

2) Ally with Russia and Turkey. This likely ends with Germany getting steamrolled, but I like these chances better than option 1. Russia is very reassuring, though I don't completely buy his idea that he can see an RTG draw developing.

I reluctantly stab France. He has no way to avoid the fall of Paris. France is understandably disappointed, but he handles it in a sportsmanlike manner and we continue to communicate. He brings up the good point that he's never seen a Jugg+Germany finish. I admit this is unlikely, but more likely than a FGRT finish!

1907

I continue to press into France, but it's slow going. France asks if there's anything he can do to change my mind. I tell him the die is cast. But next he makes what I consider the most brilliant move of the game in late 1907.

France proposes GRT draw (!) (to borrow chess notation)

This sets off a GRT discussion. I push to accept. Turkey says he is disinclined to accept, since he has the most to lose. Russia is silent, which I don't interpret as a good sign either. This makes it clear to me that it's a race to grab SCs, and Germany is in the worst position to gain. I can interpret this no other way than GRT isn't going to happen. I congratulate France and reach out to see if he wants to work together (again).

One-eye, the new Italian player, messages me with news of unearthed correspondence that purportedly lays out plans for RT to betray Germany. I don't see why he would lie, so this fortifies my decision.

Endgame

After the dust settles from the draw proposal, Russia messages me that he's concerned about Turkey's reluctance to accept the draw. I doubt the sincerity of the message, but it does have an influence on me.

After a surprise attack against Russia, FG attempts to recruit Russia for an FGR finish. We don't consider Turkey due to its likelihood of soloing. I convince France to stay our Russian attack for one season, which the Russia uses solely to reinforce the RT position. I should have listened to France, though I suspect it mattered little in the end.

Attempts are made to get me to turn on France again, but I don't trust RT to follow through and besides, it would seem terribly unsporting to turn on France again.

The 4-way draw follows soon after.

Postmortem

Not sure if Machiara cares to disclose whether or not he would have stabbed me in the latter stages of the game, but my intuition tells me he almost certainly would have. My alliance changes were done simply to survive. I never really felt like I had the upper hand in any negotiations in this game. Kudos to RT for a well-executed Jugg. After the first few years there was no doubt in my mind that the two of you were in it for the long haul, even if there was doubt in your minds! :D

Wellington - we never could get on the same page. I wasn't easy to negotiate with, especially since I was predisposed against England from the beginning. I was never going to feel relaxed with English fleets off German shores.

Machiara - Congrats on a great game. Your diplomacy was very effective. You were up against it early on, but rebounded quickly...perhaps too quickly for Germany's comfort! I felt terrible about the stab in 1906, but felt I had to weaken you to ensure Germany's survival.

ThomM - Sad to see you leave the game - hope the issues you were dealing with work themselves out favorably. I did intent to present more of a united front against the Jugg but I had to tend to hostilities in the west.

bindlestiff - Was a pleasure to play with you. Very trustworthy up to the end, where I didn't really have high expectations of you actually turning on Turkey. The goodwill you gained with me earlier in the game is what led to me convincing France to give you a chance to show your anti-Turkish sentiment. From a game perspective it would have been better to press the attack.

Crunkus - As said above, we never could get on the same wavelength. I share the blame for this.

one eye - Thanks for taking over a hopeless position. You were a fun late interjection into the game - and thanks for tying Turkey's shoelaces in the Med

Shyvve - I enjoyed the amusing dialog, even if we never really coordinated tactically. You probed for a lot of information early on which put me on guard, but you also provided reliable information which enabled me to trust you to a certain degree. It was a lot of fun having you in this game.

Playing Germany certainly caused me a lot of paranoia, but I was also very engaged with almost all of the other powers, so it was enjoyable from that perspective. Thanks to all for a great game, even if the outcome wasn't terribly satisfying.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby one eye » 28 Mar 2017, 00:01

To copy Shyvve's format from Alebelly's format...

My Objective(s) in this Game as Replacement Italy
1. To play in an oldie's game again after a 6 year absence , so I was thrilled to take over surrendered Italy, even with it's bleak future.
2. Primary objective- Survive as long as I could
3. Play a role in the game

I must 1st say there is a huge amount of work in assuming a surrendered nation. One must read endless messages and study the order of moves and try to get a feel for each other player in the game, their goals, their past with Italy. Comparing messages contents to what actual moves were made / or not made, is a daunting task. I stepped into Italy build phase of 1907 with very little time to analyze things. The map looked like this...


game-history-124805-14-O.png
1907
game-history-124805-14-O.png (171.02 KiB) Viewed 3457 times


Looking at the map for the 1st time, it appeared to be a juggernaut rolling west with a German plow out front clearing the road. Italy is completely full of Turkish tourists that have no intention of going back home. France has been backed up to the edge of the cliff. England is in worst shape than Italy, which is really saying something. And Austria well where was Austria? - gone. We appeared to be on the fast train to a 2 way with R + T smiling and waving from it's windows. I had only really 2 options,'1' - get Turkey to stop his dismantling of Italy or '2' - get my closet neighbor to lend Italy a hand to stop Turkey. I knew I'd wouldn't be able to convince Turkey to give up his addiction to Italian supply centres but one has to try. I offered to lead Turkey's fleets to France in an attempt to buy some time. I right away I knew I had wasted my time when I received a polite but rather unenthusiastic reply from Turkey. Option '2' also carried little hope in working. France would not be able to help Italy with Germany holding a choke hold on France. I needed to turn Germany around toward Russia. I've played Germany before and a German's life is a paranoid one. I needed to add to that paranoia. Armed with a very old embellished message, I attempted to convince Germany that Italy had R+T agreements before and look where that got Italy, I also sent the same to France that Turkey was on his way. This turn ,1907, also had a 3 way draw sitting on the table. I felt France's draw proposal had, had enough time to work it's magic and divide the 3 [T/R/G] and I did not want Germany to hold out hope he was still in with Russia + Turkey. To refuse it would have Germany continue to wonder why R+T where slow with it, as we learn later there was more going on in the back ground then we were aware of at the time. France replied that he could see the Turkish storm clouds gathering but was up to his neck in hobnailed boots and unable to move, he had tried to speak with Germany before, but was unable to make inroads. Then the skies opened and Germany said it was ready to talk. I did not realize that timing of the messages had worked in my favor, and from this point forward on, the complexion of the map changed. I must add that after playing a few games with the other inmates in with the general population, it was a pleasure playing with all of you in an oldies game.
Last edited by one eye on 01 Apr 2017, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby Shyvve » 28 Mar 2017, 02:13

Thank you for your comments, one eye, and welcome back after such a long hiatus!
AleBelly wrote:One-eye, the new Italian player, messages me with news of unearthed correspondence that purportedly lays out plans for RT to betray Germany. I don't see why he would lie, so this fortifies my decision.

one eye wrote:Armed with a very old embellished message, I attempted to convince Germany that Italy had R+T agreements before and look where that got Italy, I also sent the same to France that Turkey was on his way.
I can remember racking my brain and sorting through my old messages to Italy about this. I assumed what must have happened is an old message of mine to Italy where an RIT vs A was discussed had in fact been-"embellished"-but I couldn't prove it. So, was Germany merely substituted for Austria, one eye? In any event, a great ploy and congratulations on your ingenuity! I definitely remember the old messages hidden in a trunk comment you sent me.
I think it truly was a matter of perfect timing with the embellished message too, one eye, as I'm not sure without it that Germany would have made that last allegiance shift and sided with France.

I've picked up one surrendered position in my brief time here. I was rather shocked at how few messages I had too; this was like '08 or something and I picked up a one-center Italy.

It was a pleasure having you in the game, albeit briefly, and look forward to seeing you at the table again.
Your avatar is disturbing :mrgreen: !
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby AleBelly » 31 Mar 2017, 03:55

That avatar made me shudder too...

To answer Shyvve's statement, I almost certainly would have turned even without Italy's urging. It was nice to have the confirmation, however.
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Re: AAR: 124805, Oldies 2017 New Year Party

Postby one eye » 02 Apr 2017, 19:10

[quote="AleBelly"]That avatar made me shudder too...quote]
... sorry, the Passport office said that I shouldn't smile while they took the picture...

I believe it is important to be as truthful 'as you can' though out the game. You don't have to try and remember who you told what to, this makes it much easier on this old brain. The old messages in question where real but old, and referred to future moves and gains, and I'm sure we could find similar messages in any of the other country's old shoe boxes' as well . We all use these messages to speculate, promise, and test other players with what if scenarios, a way to take their measure. Simply pointing out that Italy ended up full of Turkey's finest after it cooperated with T + R, was the strong selling point. I think it is easier for two foes to come together, set a side the conflict, and begin talking if a 3rd party begins them together. Which I believe is the role Italy and the messages played. The content was not important.
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