The Haven Rules Addenda

Fog of War game. GM: UpQuark. Result amended to "No result"

The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby UpQuark » 20 Dec 2012, 03:48

    Official Haven Rules Addenda
In light of the overwhelming question volume regarding the rules and adjudication policies of The Haven I thought it best to start a separate thread for these things, with a complete summary of the Rule Addenda here at the start of the thread.
I will try to organize these by category…

    House Rules Addenda

1.
    1. Deadlines are 4/2/2 – 4 days for turns, and 2 each for Retreats and Builds.
    2. Note that all deadlines will be at the same time of day – 2300 UTC.

    Does does this mean deadlines are effectively 3-4/1-2/1-2 or 4-5/2-3/2-3. If you post the fall turn on Monday 12:00 UTC, are builds due Tuesday 23:00 UTC or Wednesday 23:00 UTC?

Deadlines are by day, not by hour. I consider a day to be >12 hours – if I have not completed adjudication and posted within 12 hours of a deadline, the new deadline will be 1 day further out. I believe this fits with “deadlines are effectively 3-4+/1-2+/1-2+”. I expect to have turns PM’d (not posted) to the players (all will be PM’d at the same time) within 6 hours of the deadline. [/list]

2.
    7. Other than an NMR on the first turn, I will allow a grace period of 1 day for an NMR’ing player to submit orders (and I will send a note regarding the NMR). Any player wishing to change their orders during another player’s grace period may do so at the cost of one of their 2 NMR allowances. This additional time is used in an attempt to prevent CD if possible.

    How is this counted? If I submit orders 2 minutes after the deadline, before you adjudicate them, will you count them as late? Or will you only count them as late if you have to send in a reminder?

    If I am adjudicating orders and your submittal arrives, I would not count that as an NMR. If this appears to be habitual, I will request provisional orders and will adjudicate using those if I have not received a change. I typically send an additional reminder within a few hours of the deadline (in addition to the 24 hour advance reminder) in an attempt to get all sets of orders in time for adjudication. This also serves to remind you that I have not received your orders (perhaps you sent them to the wrong address or other issue). If I have waited a few hours to adjudicate without receiving your orders (and I will also check recent site access), then I will issue an official NMR warning and the grace period (24 hours from the original deadline) is in effect before an NMR adjudication (CD). If I get your orders in within this 24 hour grace period, you still have the NMR on your record, but at least you were able to get in your orders.

    The key here is to promote communications – if you communicate, either to express an immediate crisis, or expected absence, or a short delay, I will be much more lenient and open to an extension than if I hear nothing. The further in advance these things can be foreseen, the better for everyone else. This is simply respect for the time of your comrades and GMs. I will not use a PM timestamp to police the arrival of orders…

    Also, the use of provisional orders to simply time out the clock each turn seems not in keeping with the desire to use speed deadlines whenever it is possible. This will be a long game. There are times when it is strategically and/or tactically important to wait out the clock, but it seems disingenuous to think this should be standard practice every turn throughout the game. Please consider your use of Provisional orders, and if Provisional orders are submitted early and you have come to a decision that there is no further requirement to wait to finalize those orders, please make an effort to do so. I will not police the use of provisional orders, this is simply a request to consider the issuance of provisional orders in regards impact on the other players if you have no real intent or expectation of changing them. Orders may be changed at any time up to the point I begin to adjudicate, previous orders being provisional or not. Occasionally if I am down to 1 set of provisional orders and all other players have issued orders, I will send a request regarding executing on the current orders according to speed deadline rules. This decision remains completely with each player, however.

3.
    10. GM impersonation is forbidden. Any attempt to forward GM communications with attribution to the GM (quotes or forwarded communications, or any attempt to refer to the GM in order to substantiate any claim made from one player to another) is forbidden and will result in punishment.

    Does this mean I'm not even allowed to inform another player about the rules? Imagine I'm faerie, I'm trying to do diplomacy with someone. That person is afraid I may attack him with my faerie over water. So I say to him: "No. I can't. This is what UpQuark said about it: 'The faerie must fly to a safe spot to land within 2 turns of flying over water. It can be supported into a space on land - but with an offensive capacity of 0 would require at least 2 supports against any opposition'. So I can't attack you from sea".
    As written, that would result in punishment. But that seems a bit harsh.


    GM impersonation is a serious issue, especially in light of the fog of war, special power, and intel rules with this game. The game should be played as if the GM does not exist, and the GM should not be referenced at all to try and sway you opponents. This is not at all harsh – as anything a player states or forwards from the GM may or may not be faked, including maps. You must come up with your own diplomatic leverage to convince your opponents of your aims. In the example, remove the phrase “This is what UpQuark said about it” and it would be fine. I would prefer you point to the rule in the rules post versus restating it. The only reason there is a warning for this offense is in case of an accidental quote which keeps my name attached – you should remove my name or any reference to the GM prior to sending anything to an opponent. Remember – there is incentive for him to turn you in. The rule is intended to be harsh – I have actually provided a method to manage an accident, but in any cases where it can be determined this occurs purposefully it will be considered egregious and result in banishment (and no, not to the Underworld). This is supposed to be harsh, in order to discourage GM impersonation in the strongest possible way.

    General Game Rules Addenda
1.
    You can see the spaces that your units are on, plus every adjacent space to your units.
    (...) If you can see a space after an adjudication, you will learn a lot about that space

    It's not entirely clear to me how that works. If I succesfully move WMO - EMO (in the centre of the map), I'll be able to see everything that borders EMO. So RUG and NMO an WMO. But will I also be able to see what borders WMO, such as TIL?

    In this instance, you are discussing a fleet moving between sea zones. TIL would not be visible in the turn map showing this move (unless you had other forces with capacity to observe TIL or were Rogues and owned the Lighthouse on GRM). In addition to the spaces mentioned, you would also see: GUM, GHA, CHU, & NIM. Your intel report would only reveal activity affecting WMO & EMO (since you moved).

2.
    If you order a unit to Hold or stand, you will see all the activity that happens in or to the spaces you are adjacent to.

    ALL adjacent tiles? Not just the ones you can move to? So armies would see sea action?


    There is a difference between what is revealed on the map (VISION) and what is revealed in the intel reports. Compare “What You Can See” which states what is revealed on the map with “Intel & Adjudication Reports” which states what is revealed by way of activity in particular spaces (listing the unit, action, and result for all actions impacting that space – even if initiated by a unit beyond that space and hidden in the fog, or not visible to you on your map). So yes, armies could receive reports of activities at sea in spaces they cannot “see”. The Hold order becomes much more useful because of this rule.

3.
    Furthermore, what will a convoying fleet see? And I order A Lon - Hol, but the convoy is dislodged and thus fails, will I still get information about Hol?


    A convoying Fleet is considered supporting the attack into the destination province for purposes of fog evaluations (or into the province of passing off the army to the next fleet). In your example, the army fails to move and so remains in Lon, able to “see” around him (except to the sea zones) and able to only receive intel on Lon (not Hol, since the convoy failed – if the attack on Hol failed, he would get the intel report on Hol). The Fleet will “see” all the zones around him, including Hol, but will only get intel on the attacker. N.B. – the Fleet now has to order a retreat – but may not have information on a bounce in the neighboring sea province… and if ordering a retreat into that province (which would be an illegal retreat), could result in disbandment vice a successful retreat. So you would “see” Hol but not get intel on what occurred in Hol…


    Race Specific Addenda
    Archers
      1.
      Can you support a unit using the archery ability to hold? So for example F Pry RA Dry, A Lox S F Pry H.

      No, a RA is considered an attack and not a Hold (though it is special in that you do not advance if the attack is successful). The only support for a RA is against the recipient of the attack, either by another RA or regular attack.

      Archer armies may support fleets at sea or attacks by fleets at sea due to their ability of Archery. This should be ordered as a Support. Archers are the only race for whom such a Support order would be legal. The reason this is not technically a RA is because an RA is treated like a move, and the unit cannot be supported in place. In the case an Archer army supports a Fleet combat at sea, it should be ordered as a support, and the Archer army may be supported in place.

      2.
      can an Archer fleet shoot to a space it can't move...it specifically says armies can...but can fleets as well

      Yes, Archer Fleets have the same RA capability as Archer Armies. Archer Fleets MAY use the ranged attack option (range is 1 - this is simply an attack in which the attacker does not advance following success).
    Barbarians
      1.
      The barbarians' abilities are a tad unclear. Do they sense everything within two spaces, or only if a unit heads in their direction?

      Barbarian units (Armies and Fleets, including fleets at sea) sense enemy ARMIES only within 2 spaces. These will be revealed in the intel reports, but the intel report will not list any enemy army which is already visible on the Barbarian’s map. Only the direction and quantity of enemy armies is revealed. The specific Barbarian unit sensing the enemy armies is specified.

      Barbarian Fleets DO have the "sense", but Barbarians can ONLY sense ARMIES - not Fleets, even if the enemy Fleet is approaching up a river.
      2. Barbarians can sense enemy armies 2 spaces away, so this is likely in the fog (if an enemy is spotted by you and shown on your map, you do not get a "sense" report on it, as you can clearly see it).

      You will be told that you sense [number of] units to the [direction]. The specific civilization and province are not revealed.

      The part missing from the rules post is that the specific unit sensing the enemy will be specified - you know what the reference space is. Example from the opening map:
        A BRE senses 1 enemy army to the SouthEast.
        A GU'T senses 1 enemy army to the West.

      When the Barbarians receive their first (start) map, they will not see any other units but their own. But they will sense the presence of the Knight army and the Gnome army nearby (note the race is not identified by "sense").

      Barbarian sense will work in every phase, so a newly built unit within range will be sensed. The rule states "anytime" an enemy army is in range.
    Centaurs
      1. Owls are only seen by the Centaurs, who control them. They cannot be seen, or attacked. They can only be “lost” by ending a turn >3 spaces from any Centaur unit. Only Centaur ARMIES may train a new Owl. There is only ever 1 Owl at a time.
    Dwarves
    Elves
      1. Elven Fleets do not hide (only the Elf Armies can hide in the trees).
    Faeries
      1.
      Are faeries allowed to build fleets? And if so, can their fleets fly over land?

      All races may build Fleets, including Faeries.

      Faerie fleets do not fly. Ships don't have wings. None of the other races' fleets fly either. Remember that there is river movement in this game, and the map is full of rivers - so Fleets can penetrate to most of the provinces on the map (treated like a "coastal" province).

      2. Faeries walk when on land. Faeries only fly when over water. Faeries may be convoyed, but must start and end any convoy on a land space.

      3. N.B. I have reexamined the Faerie rules, and though they cannot attack another sea province while flying, nor support any attack while flying, they do have a normal attack strength of 1 when attacking a land province to try and return to land. This has previously been incorrectly advised.
    Gnomes
    Hobbits
    Knights
      1.
      Knight Armies may charge forward 2 spaces (from A, thru B, to C). The intermediate space must be vacant at the start of the turn. The player must be able to see where he's charging into - one cannot charge thru a province into the fog. If a knight fails to move thru the intermediate space then the destination space is unaffected. A knight will move half-way and stop in the intermediate space if bounced from the final space. Supports may be ordered for the destination move (Army nearby supports Knight A to C -- the route (B) need not be specified in the support). Any activity in the intermediate space will cause the charge to be abandoned, and the move treated like an unsupported move from A to B.
      Can you support the move on the middle space...AND the end space (2 different units providing support?)
      Or even just the first part of the 2 part move, and the second part be unsupported


      Only the final space can receive support. NO support allowed for the intermediate space - which must also be empty at the start of the turn. A Charge can be foiled by interference in this middle space. The only exception is that the target of the charge cannot attempt a move into the intervening space to stop a charge - they would bounce in the intermediate space, or if the charge was supported, it would succeed.

      Though this may sound weak - use FoW to set it up so the enemy does not see your other knight set up for the charge and the move can cause havoc - the other player will see the knight charge out of the fog and attack him. Most of the special powers are weaker than you might expect at first, but can be amplified by proper and careful use of the FoW.

      The last sentence of the rule is clear.
    Leprechauns
      1.
      Somewhere... Over the Rainbow, you never know what you'll find. Perhaps a pot of gold, or maybe a band of ogres -- but the leprechauns can choose to find out. In the Spring, one Leprechaun may choose to order over the rainbow (OTR). If he does, the GM will randomly select one of the 89 clear spaces on the map.

      Can both armies and fleets do this? I assume armies will only land in land spaces? But fleets, will they always land in open ocean, or coastal, or both?

      No, only Leprechaun ARMIES may Jump over the Rainbow. This would avoid a fleet ending up in a landlocked province, for example… The 89 clear spaces are the 89 clear LAND spaces on the map. I counted them and have them numbered already…
    Magicians
      1. Magicians get to SEE 1 province per move turn, but get no report on orders affecting that province (similar to Centaur’s OWL). Magicians can see into some spaces they have not previously observed - 1 space beyond any space they have previously observed.

      2.
      The Magicians may peer into their crystal ball once per move turn (Spring and Fall phases) to reveal the contents of any one space on the map. The space must have previously been observed by the owning player -- or at most 1 space into unexplored fog (i.e. Crystal ball peer into the space [direction] of [province]).
      Do they have to hold to do this?

      No - this is not a unit oriented order, just a special power that Magicians have. Same for Wizards. Centaur Owl is like the Magician power, except it is associated with a special (hidden from everyone else) unit, so has to be maneuvered around the map (immune to attack or blocking).

      Note the difference between VIEW power and LISTEN power - one reveals information on the map (VIEW - Magician and Owl) and one reveals order information for a given province - you see the adjudications of any unit moving in/out of that space that turn - but it is not revealed on the map.
    Nomads
      1.
      Can the Nomads build on their original starting centers? Because it says originally neutral, but I'm not sure.

      Nomads can build like any other race on their own Home SCs or any of the 12 Eternal Build Centers (if they own it and it is vacant). IN ADDITION, Nomads are the only race who may also build on any originally neutral SC (any that are not another race’s home SC).
    Ogres
    Pirates
      1.
      Can the pirates rebuild their fleets any turn or only in winter?

      Pirates can only build in the Winter. Only Trolls have an exception on building, when resurrecting a dead Troll.

      Pirates can rebuild any race’s fleet previously disbanded in an open sea zone.

      2.
      When ordering a fleet build, Pirates may build on any of their home centers, or in any sea zone (sea only, not coastal) in which any fleet was disbanded. Once a fleet is "rebuilt" the same one may not be rebuilt again, even if it gets disbanded again. Spaces must be vacant.
      This says their home SC...Im assuming you mean build anywhere as well...yes?

      No this is 2 different things. Pirates may build a Fleet on a home SC, like anyone else builds. Or an Eternal Build site. OR, similar to Undead, they may resurrect a disbanded fleet in a sea zone where a fleet was disbanded.
    Rogues
      1. Both Armies and Fleets may take on a disguise. But the specific unit you are trying to become disguised as must have been observed. You cannot observe a Gnome Army and attempt to disguise a fleet as a Gnome Fleet (until you have actually observed a Gnome Fleet).
    Samurai
      * Samurai: suppose you suicide charge into a supply center and kill the occupying unit. Do you then still claim the SC before you die?


      1. In order to claim a territory, you must occupy it after retreats. So a BANZAI charge is not an effective method to capture a province... it is meant to take out an enemy unit. The Samurai will not occupy a space after retreats and upon completion of a BANZAI charge. The Samurai unit is determined to have disbanded in the target province of the Banzai attack, which is the same space of the attacked unit (for cases of Undead resurrections, there are 2 bodies now there available for resurrection, though only 1 could be raised at a time).
    Trolls
      1.
      Any time a Troll Army is disbanded, as soon as the space that it was disbanded in becomes vacant, and if there is sufficient supply, the Troll may return to life (no wait for winter).

      How does this interact with the archer? If the archer shoots and dislodges a troll unit, can it choose to disband instead of withdraw, then immediately return to life (since the province is vacant).

      Yes, this is a possibility. But Trolls only get 1 resurrection – the next disbandment would be permanent (they would not be eligible for revival). You need to kill Trolls twice...

      Note that if there are 2 dead bodies in a province, at least one of which is a Troll available for resurrection, and both Undead and Trolls attempt to resurrect each of the 2 bodies, neither resurrection will occur. If both try to resurrect the Troll carcass, the Troll will succeed.
    Undead
      1.
      You can both raise enemy units and build them in your home supply centres. Ok. Are all Undead units considered skeletons? Or does he have normal units too? And is there any limit on the number of skeletons raised? This sounds like you can build 3 new skeletons every turn regardless of supply. He'll overrun the entire board pretty quickly!

      Skeleton Armies are those armies which originated from other players’ dead corpses – these armies are not eligible to be resurrected if disbanded. Skeleton armies also disband in lieu of retreat. Regular Undead armies built in Home SCs may retreat if required to do so.

      The limit on Undead armies is the same as everyone else – based on SC count. This includes a requirement to support all Skeleton armies with an SC per army. So – you trade the ability to retreat if required (immediate disbandment) for the ability to raise your army in an empty province where an opponents’ army previously disbanded. Or you may build regular armies in your home SCs (or any of the 12 Eternal Build Center SCs).

      2.
      The Undead leader may order a Skeleton Army build in any of his home centers, or may attempt to raise any disbanded enemy army on the map (the space must be currently unoccupied). It is up to the Undead leader to figure out where units on the board have been disbanded, to know what dead-raising options he has. He may not raise his own skeleton dead armies, only enemy armies that were once alive and have been disbanded. Raised armies are weaker than regular armies - if they are ever dislodged, they disband, no retreat permitted, and cannot be re-raised.
      Can they resurrect Trolls...and if so, can they resurrect re-generated Trolls

      A regenerated Troll is alive - and once redead (dead again) it is permanently dead - unable to be resurrected by anyone, Troll or Undead.

      If the troll body was abandoned by the Troll player (not resurrected within the 4 turn limit max and at the earliest possible opportunity), then it is simply a dead troll carcass and is available for the Undead player to resurrect. It simply becomes a Skeleton Army (not a Troll under command of the Undead player...) - but like any other resurrected Army, once disbanded again, it is gone forever.
      Resurrected Armies (Undead or Troll) never retreat - they always disband in lieu of retreat.

      So, should the Troll player wait until Winter to try and resurrect a dead Troll within the window of opportunity (4 move phases), and the Undead player also try to resurrect it as a Skeleton Army in the same winter phase, the Troll order takes precedence.

      3.
      If a unit is disbanded on an enemy Build SC, and both the enemy and Undead player order a Build on that SC in the same winter phase (Undead tries to build a Skeleton Army in the same space as the owner attempts a regular build), which would occur? Can Undead in this case give a provisional build order to be used if the resurrection fails?

      Regular builds occur prior to resurrections, and so the province owner's build would occur - and then the space is occupied, preventing the resurrection of a Skeleton Army.

      As the regular builds occur first, Undead player must decide in this case to try for the resurrection (and in this case it would fail, and they would have to wait for a later opportunity) or to take a guaranteed build in an empty home or Eternal Build SC. They could not issue a provisional regular build to occur if a resurrection fails, as the resurrection occurs after regular builds.
    Wizards
      1.
      Regarding the Wizards' ability to listen in to another space, what do you mean "The space must have previously been observed by the owning player -- not via guess or intelligence."? Does that mean a space has to occupied for a Wizard to be able listen to it?

      To have previously observed another province you will have had to:
        - occupied it at some point
        - been adjacent to it with the capacity to have observed it (see the rules with regard what you can see) - basically adjacent with the ability to move into that space.
      at any time in the past.

      HEARING means you get a report of all orders affecting that province. You would not get any visibility on the province.
      Magicians get to SEE 1 province per move turn, but get no report on orders affecting that province. Similar to an OWL. Magicians can see into some spaces they have not previously observed - 1 space beyond any space they have previously observed.
Last edited by UpQuark on 06 Jan 2013, 01:16, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby BobMyYak » 21 Dec 2012, 20:53

I have a question regarding lighthouses/watchtowers: Are these in predefined locations, or placed at the start of the game by the players?

Cheers


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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby UpQuark » 21 Dec 2012, 21:17

BobMyYak wrote:I have a question regarding lighthouses/watchtowers: Are these in predefined locations, or placed at the start of the game by the players?

Cheers


Bob


There are 7, already on the map, and only 7 races ever have them (as these are fixed, and only the original owning player may use their lighthouse/watchtower).

Ogres, Leprechauns, Undead, Rogues, Faeries, Archers, and Samurai have one. These are shown on the map.

    The original SC's will show the original owning player color on your maps, so you know which are originally owned by other races, and which were originally neutral.
    The entrances to the Underworld are shown with a cave entrance on the main map.
    Lighthouses (5) look like a trophy.
    Watchtowers (2) look like a Rook chess piece.
    Eternal Build SCs are a square with a + through it, larger than the standard SC marker.
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby BigBert » 23 Dec 2012, 16:42

Hello,

I'd like to ask a few additional questions.:
* Rogues: okay this is probably a silly question, but I assume that the one who you impersonate does know it is an impersonation?
* Samurai: suppose you suicide charge into a supply center and kill the occupying unit. Do you then still claim the SC before you die?
* Regarding elimination: so if I understand correctly, you're not allowed to talk anymore after you're eliminated? Is that correct? What if someone who doesn't officially knows you're eliminated ask you whether you are eliminated, may you answer them "yes I am"?
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby asudevil » 23 Dec 2012, 16:46

BigBert wrote:* Samurai: suppose you suicide charge into a supply center and kill the occupying unit. Do you then still claim the SC before you die?


I hope not

BigBert wrote:* Regarding elimination: so if I understand correctly, you're not allowed to talk anymore after you're eliminated? Is that correct? What if someone who doesn't officially knows you're eliminated ask you whether you are eliminated, may you answer them "yes I am"?


I think if they don't know yet...you should be able to talk until you are officially announced eliminated to the entire board...

You figure that close people already know...and the further people wont be damaged by it (other than just screwing with them)
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby BigBert » 23 Dec 2012, 16:52

Something else, one thing I encoutered a lot in World War IV:

What if a player disappears? It can happen quite regularly that a player just suddenly never logs on again at some point. What will you do then UpQuark? Immediately replace as soon as you're aware the player has left? Or let the civilization NMR twice in a row and then look for a replacement? Will you look for replacements anyway?

The reason I ask is that this is going to be difficult. Scouting for new players is very difficult if you can't give any information about what position the substitute would get, or even what race. You'll most likely want to a have a large reserve pool already at the start.
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby UpQuark » 23 Dec 2012, 19:00

I have reserves, and I do check for logins when an NMR occurs (to see if they have received my messages). A couple of the players block their login register, but I can see if PMs are accepted.

I have not experienced this problem yet, but if someone disappears without notice, I would replace them (after the first NMR turn has been run, if there is still no response, I will call up a reserve to replace them).

The group of players in this game are least likely to disappear due to longevity (in most cases) and activity on the site. I selected the players to avoid this situation, if possible. I also have reserves ready to jump in, and will maintain a reserve list.

I would also provide an extended deadline for the replacement player to review all the turn materials - they would receive every turn for the race they inherit, since this is an intel history, and would need time to assimilate and communicate with the other players.
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby UpQuark » 23 Dec 2012, 19:15

BigBert wrote:Hello,

I'd like to ask a few additional questions.:
* Rogues: okay this is probably a silly question, but I assume that the one who you impersonate does know it is an impersonation?
* Samurai: suppose you suicide charge into a supply center and kill the occupying unit. Do you then still claim the SC before you die?
* Regarding elimination: so if I understand correctly, you're not allowed to talk anymore after you're eliminated? Is that correct? What if someone who doesn't officially knows you're eliminated ask you whether you are eliminated, may you answer them "yes I am"?


1. The person whose unit is being impersonated would only know they are being impersonated if they can see the unit (or hear about the unit from someone who can). There is no other way to differentiate the disguised unit from any of the real units. A disguised Rogue unit will lose it's disguise immediately if displaced (forced to retreat). If a player tries to order a disguised unit, thinking it is his own, he will receive a report back that no such unit exists (illegal order) in the adjudications... even though he can see a unit right there on his map... that looks like his own.

In the case of an intel report, such as a wizard might receive: this is a case where other players would be told of the disguised unit's activities as if it were the disguised race. If the race who is the actual player whom the disguise is taken from receives an intel report on the disguised unit, it will state that it is a Rogue unit, and not report that it is his own unit...

2. In order to claim a territory, you must occupy it after retreats. So a BANZAI charge is not an effective method to capture a province... it is meant to take out an enemy unit. The Samurai will not occupy a space after retreats and upon completion of a BANZAI charge.

3. I will send a PM to those eliminated asking them to have no further game communications with the remaining living players. They may talk to other dead players - I will have to inform the other dead players of every elimination if this is desired (so a living player does not pretend to be dead to elicit information). You may not answer any question regarding the game from a remaining alive player. Certainly not "Are you dead?". How many dead people do you know who would respond to that question? And no, not even the Undead may respond. I would prefer that you simply ignore their notes regarding the game.

This will last 3 game turns, at which point everyone will have been told of your death. After that, like any dead player in a game, you should still not discuss the game any longer with those currently still playing. That is bad form if not expressly forbidden (I'll have to check forum rules again).

Those closest to you, who are most likely to be your allies (and enemies), will know fairly soon of your elimination. It is those players on the other side of the world who will be informed on a delayed schedule (though may find out via diplomatic channels sooner - but certainly not from any dead people).

I think it is unfair to have dead players continue to put up an active guise of being alive when they are no longer represented in the game, especially if trying to fool them or trick them. There is simply too much possibility for real damage to be done by a player who is technically no longer in the game. I think the mystery of a sudden "quiet" from one player until the formal announcement is sufficient mystery.

As an eliminated player, you would no longer receive turn maps or reports, and so would have no idea what is happening in the game either.

This is a Fog of War game. Once you are dead, your intel and maps are dead too - you are not allowed to pass on information or discuss strategy with the remaining players. I cannot police this, but it is against the spirit of the game, and the players have all been chosen due to experience, and I believe they will all abide by these rules.
Last edited by UpQuark on 23 Dec 2012, 19:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby BigBert » 23 Dec 2012, 19:21

Ok, thanks for the detailed clarifications UpQuark! :)
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Re: The Haven Rules Addenda

Postby asudevil » 23 Dec 2012, 20:44

UpQuark wrote:I have reserves, and I do check for logins when an NMR occurs (to see if they have received my messages). A couple of the players block their login register, but I can see if PMs are accepted.

I have not experienced this problem yet, but if someone disappears without notice, I would replace them (after the first NMR turn has been run, if there is still no response, I will call up a reserve to replace them).

The group of players in this game are least likely to disappear due to longevity (in most cases) and activity on the site. I selected the players to avoid this situation, if possible. I also have reserves ready to jump in, and will maintain a reserve list.


I did this with Imperial and didn't have to replace anyone either...although that game ran much shorter than WW4
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