Is Aincent med too naval?

Strategy discussions for the Ancient Med variant.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby Pedros » 12 Dec 2012, 01:23

No, that isn't the argument at all. That wouldn't go against that definition of a stalemate line.

There may be other ways here, but the one I can see is for Rome to work a fleet into Byzantium (tricky one, but it can be done) and then move itinto Black Sea. That destroys Persia's position in that corner completely. I wouldn't have spotted this so quickly if I hadn' recently played a game of Age of Empires (therefore Build Anywhere); Persia built a fleet in Sinope and then into Black, which destroyed Greece quite quickly.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby Pedros » 12 Dec 2012, 01:27

No, that isn't the argument at all. That wouldn't go against that definition of a stalemate line.

There may be other ways here, but the one I can see is for Rome to work a fleet into Byzantium (tricky one, but it can be done) and then move itinto Black Sea. That destroys Persia's position in that corner completely. I wouldn't have spotted this so quickly if I hadn' recently played a game of Age of Empires (therefore Build Anywhere); Persia built a fleet in Sinope and then into Black, which destroyed Greece quite quickly. (I'm writing up a report of the breach of the "stalemate" line in that one, which involves similar techniques - twice in fact.

As the position stands jaelis's solution would also work - just attack Crete and Alexandria in (random) turns and wait until the east guesses wrongly. If there was a fleet in Miletus there wouldbe a chance to dislodge Aegean on the first move which would make the southern position solid.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby Pedros » 12 Dec 2012, 01:31

Going back to the original point, I grant that fleets play a very big role in Ancient Med, though not as big as was claimed (that's one reason I like it - I've always loved playing with fleets in Regular - especially around Gibraltar). If you're playing Carthage then it' probably easy to feel the game's all about fleets. Less so for Egypt, and if you're in the north there is definitely a very big army element. The battle for Asia Minor and around the Black Sea is one of the key parts of the game.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby diplomat42 » 12 Dec 2012, 02:26

Well...it's more naval than Regular!

And I enjoy it.

Stalemates? No worse than regular.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby jkid » 12 Dec 2012, 03:34

jaelis wrote:
Petunia wrote:Which is the side that could break through?

It looks to me like Carthage can break through in the south. The fleet in Egyptian Sea must support Crete, so Sinai and Pelusium must support Alexandria. (Support from Thebes could be cut.) But that leaves Thebes with no support.

(I trust that this is not a current game!)


This is wrong, though. Alexandria only needs 1 support as it is only bordered by 2 enemy units. Therefore, Pelusium can support it to hold while Sinai supports Thebes to hold, and that won't be broken even when the cows come home unless a player turns traitor.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby diplomat42 » 12 Dec 2012, 03:52

jkid wrote:
jaelis wrote:
Petunia wrote:Which is the side that could break through?

It looks to me like Carthage can break through in the south. The fleet in Egyptian Sea must support Crete, so Sinai and Pelusium must support Alexandria. (Support from Thebes could be cut.) But that leaves Thebes with no support.

(I trust that this is not a current game!)


This is wrong, though. Alexandria only needs 1 support as it is only bordered by 2 enemy units. Therefore, Pelusium can support it to hold while Sinai supports Thebes to hold, and that won't be broken even when the cows come home unless a player turns traitor.


Nope!
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby jkid » 12 Dec 2012, 04:30

diplomat42 wrote:Nope!
Libyan Sea, Cyrene, Memphis.


Ah. I forgot Libyan Sea. Nevermind, then!
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby jaelis » 12 Dec 2012, 04:33

That said, it looks like the army in Isauria and the fleet in Cilician Strait are superfluous. If you removed one of them and added a fleet in the Reed Sea, then you would have a bona fide stalemate line. Contrary to Pedros's claim, I don't think it is possible for Carthage or Rome to maneuver a fleet into the Black Sea from here, since they cannot capture Byzantium.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby jkid » 12 Dec 2012, 05:28

jaelis wrote:That said, it looks like the army in Isauria and the fleet in Cilician Strait are superfluous. If you removed one of them and added a fleet in the Reed Sea, then you would have a bona fide stalemate line. Contrary to Pedros's claim, I don't think it is possible for Carthage or Rome to maneuver a fleet into the Black Sea from here, since they cannot capture Byzantium.


I agree. I don't see a way to take Byzantium with 3 units when he has 2 supporting it to hold, and if you cut the support of the only one you can, you can only attack with 2 units.
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Re: Is Aincent med too naval?

Postby Petunia » 12 Dec 2012, 20:38

Huh. We played that turn like 4 times. I'm surprised jaelis' solution didn't come up.

I agree that the Byzantium idea is a non-starter.

And no, it's not an active game - we drew from that position.
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