Request to the College of GMs

Variant in which random spaces become black holes turn by turn. Introduced by Pedros from a variety of older, similar games and GMd by Pedros. Winner: Radical Pumpkin (Italy)
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Request to the College of GMs

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 18:18

RadicalPumpkin has questioned, not so much my verdict about whether his order was valid because it was ambiguous but whether I am reasonable or (in his word) "weird" to consider it ambiguous. Clearly I can't determine whether or not I'm being weird about this, and have told him I will ask the other GMs whether or not they would have allowed the order.

The orders and resulting map are at viewtopic.php?f=448&t=33563&p=577645#p577600, and the previous map is at viewtopic.php?f=448&t=33502#p576646 (you may or may not need to refer to them)

The order in question is France's "Pic S Ber -Bel", and the corresponding order is also France's, "Bur - Bel" (Sorry about the confusing map, but this is Black Hole and all black spaces don't exist and everything around their edges touches each other.) Bur-Bel is a valid order.

Simple question: if those two orders were submitted to you would you allow the support order or not?

(My House Rules state that
It's up to you to make sure they're (your orders) accurate. I won't read orders in detail until the deadline (this is so that if somebody else asks a question there's no chance of me betraying your secrets! - also because it's the way original Dip rules worked) If it's clear what they mean (I'll accept any recognisable abbreviations so long as they aren't ambiguous)
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Re: Request to the College of GMs

Postby diplomat42 » 23 Nov 2012, 18:44

I wouldn't allow it.
The order reads BER, the official abbreviation for Berlin. Bur is the abbreviation for Burgundy. He ordered support for a unit in Berlin, not one in Burgundy.
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Re: Request to the College of GMs

Postby Radical Pumpkin » 23 Nov 2012, 18:50

I think this is all based on a misunderstanding. I was never talking about France's orders at all. (Was Janepeg? I don't think so....) I thought you were saying the Austrian order was disallowed, and that's what I thought was weird. But it seems like you unintentionally ignored that support order (so that there was a 2-2 bounce in Norway, which you've now changed) for reasons that had nothing to do with deeming it invalid.

I agree that France had a misorder.
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Re: Request to the College of GMs

Postby Diadem » 23 Nov 2012, 18:58

Well I'm not a GM but I'm going to respond anyway. I hope that's ok :)

I would absolutely not allow that support to go through. Not even in normal diplomacy where Ber - Bel is not a valid move. The support order is an entirely valid and unambiguous order, it's just wrong. If someone writes Bgy for Burgundy, I'd say let it go through, but Ber is an existing province. If you write down the wrong province that's your own mistake. The only allowance I'd make is an order like "F Ion S F Tyr - Tun". In that case I'd be willing to believe that they meant Tys, not Tyr, and got the abbreviation wrong.

I would, if I were you, slightly rephrase your house rules though. "If it's clear what they mean" really leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Would you allow a 4-centre Italy (Ven, Rom, Nap, Tun) with units A Ven, Rom, F Tun, Ion to order "everything supports each-other". It's clear what they mean, but ... I personally would want my players to stick a bit closer to the original rules.
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Re: Request to the College of GMs

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 19:23

OK. Don't know where the misunderstanding came from, but if there was one it's now cleared up. No argument.

So I'm locking the thread.
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