Fall 1911

Variant in which random spaces become black holes turn by turn. Introduced by Pedros from a variety of older, similar games and GMd by Pedros. Winner: Radical Pumpkin (Italy)
Enjoyment rating: :D :D :D :)

Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 12:29

Some interesting conflicts and one misorder which was very nearly terminal! Italy sits on the edge at 13 SCs, but France has one retreat to make, from Kiel. Retreat please by 1030 GMT (0530 EST) on Saturday 24 November.

Black Hole.gif
Black Hole.gif (32.51 KiB) Viewed 1595 times

France (Janepeg : NMRs 0)
Mos - Nwy : Resolved 3-2
Wal - Lon : Resolved 2-1
Lpl S Wal - Lon : Resolved
Bur - Bel : Bounced 1-1
Mun - Ber : Bounced 1-1
Kie S Mun - Ber : Dislodged 1-2 : Retreat
Pic S Ber -Bel : X
Nth S Mos - Nwy : Failed
Ruh - Mun : Bounced

Italy (Radical Pumpkin : NMRs 0)
F Bul-Con : Resolved
A Ven-Rum : Resolved
A Bud S Ven-Rum : Resolved
A Vie S Ven-Rum : Resolved
A Tyr-Mun : Bounced 1-2
F WES-NAO : Resolved
F Tun-MAO : Resolved
F TYS-LYO : Resolved
F Mar-Lon : Bounced 1-2
A Bel-Ruh : Bounced 1-1
A Nwy-Kie : Resolved 2-1
F BAR S Nwy-Kie : Resolved

Austria (Kithchener : NMRs 0)
The Grand Austrian army in Sweden support the imperial French army in the fine city of Moscow to attack the country of Norway, currently under the tyrant like control of the Italian king.: Resolved

Russia (demmahom : NMRs 1)
Sevastopol move Smyrna : Resolved
Silesia move Berlin : Bounced 1-1
Denmark support Livonia to Norway : Failed
Livonia move Norway : Bounced 2-2
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Jegpeg » 23 Nov 2012, 14:51

I know it is rather wordy but I think the Austrian order is clear enough:

Sweden support Moscow - Norway

Having said that I think I'm better in Moscow so if you think it is ambiguous I wont be too upset.

I'll give my retreat later (not enough time to think it through now and it is likely to be conditional on where the Mos / Nwy unit is.


Why are the two territories pronounced the same in the Dip board it is just asking for confusion. :x
Last edited by Jegpeg on 23 Nov 2012, 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
Jegpeg
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: 08 Dec 2009, 20:56
Location: Scotland
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1125)
All-game rating: (1401)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 14:58

I was clear what he meant, but he definitely ordered to somewhere else. The rules (especially my House Rules) are absolutely clear on this point.

And, as I say every time this sort of question arises, it could have been a deliberate misorder, in which case he'd have been extremely upset if I'd allowed it!
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Radical Pumpkin » 23 Nov 2012, 16:36

I don't care how this one is adjudicated, but what in the rules or your house rules says this is an invalid order? I would have focused on the bit in the standard rules about how a poorly-worded order with only one interpretation is valid.
Radical Pumpkin
 
Posts: 835
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 15:58
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1599)
All-game rating: (1620)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 16:54

It's up to you to make sure they're accurate. I won't read orders in detail until the deadline (this is so that if somebody else asks a question there's no chance of me betraying your secrets! - also because it's the way original Dip rules worked) If it's clear what they mean (I'll accept any recognisable abbreviations so long as they aren't ambiguous)

Your orders weren't remotely ambiguous. When I said "I knew what you meant" perhaps I should have spelt it out in more detail. I could guess what unit you probably intended to be supporting, but it wasn't what you wrote. "It's up to you to make sure they're accurate."

And, as I said, from time to time players intentionally write orders exactly like that. So much so that I've played with one respected player on the site who told me (after I'd made a similar misorder) that "He had a policy of always assuming that a misorder is intentional." If that's what you had done and I'd allowed it, you would now be complaining because I'd changed your unambiguous order.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Radical Pumpkin » 23 Nov 2012, 17:07

I guess to me, the Austrian order counts as clear and unambiguous, and I'm surprised that you feel differently. If someone sent something like that intending for it to be interpreted as a misorder, and then complained that it wasn't, I would not think they had a reasonable case.

Now I'm curious whether I'm the weird one or you are....

(BTW, I really don't have a dog in this. I'm just interested in the general issue raised.)
Radical Pumpkin
 
Posts: 835
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 15:58
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1599)
All-game rating: (1620)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 17:30

OK. This is what I'll do. I'll post a question in the GMs' chatroom with a link to the topic, quote the orders (including the Burgundy-Belgium one) and and see what they would have done. In fact I'll ask them to do it publicly.

That's to get an answer of which of us is "weird", not for the resolution of this season, which remains inmy mind absolutely clear.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 17:35

And sorry Janepeg, you're right about Moscow- Norway, it succeeds. I always intended to mark the support as Resolved; not sure what happened there. Correcting it.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Radical Pumpkin » 23 Nov 2012, 17:58

If I'm reading the orders right, Mos-Nwy succeeds if and only if Austria's order is valid. Are you saying it does count as valid now?
Radical Pumpkin
 
Posts: 835
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 15:58
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1599)
All-game rating: (1620)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Fall 1911

Postby Pedros » 23 Nov 2012, 18:08

Yes I am. I always intended to mark it as valid and don't know why I didn't.

It's utterly unambiguous!
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
User avatar
Pedros
 
Posts: 12465
Joined: 25 Jan 2009, 12:59
Location: Somewhere full of gorse and brambles, West Cornwall
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1085)
All-game rating: (1314)
Timezone: GMT

Next

Return to Black Hole Diplomacy {All Maps Lost}

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest