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Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 02:39
by UpQuark
Deadline for Summer 952 Retreats is Thursday 20 September 2300 UTC. Retreats are due from France, Danmark, Slavic Nations, and East Roman Empire.

Sverige has had a change of leadership – Pharaoh of nerds has lopped off the head of the old chieftain and taken command of the forces of Sverige. Bazza’s head is mounted on a pole outside the Pharaoh’s tent – and oddly there are chickens running all around it. And a few pigs.

Meanwhile, another NMR from France and his skull has been crushed by his own forces and his body drawn and quartered. It was kind of messy… bluestreaksoccer is no more.

viking_S952.gif


    France bluestreaksoccer NMR removed
    A Nan H AUTO DISBAND
    F Tls H
    A Mnz H
    A Zur H RETREAT
    A Bav H RETREAT

    Norge diplomat42
    A Btg – Noi
    F BOB S A Noi – Btg
    A Noi – Nan
    F Kal – BAL
    A Bja – Var
    A Lin H
    F IRI – Btg
    A Tiu – Upp
    A Jem S A Tiu – Upp
    A Lap S A Bja – Var
    F Nid – BAR

    Danmark Mouse
    F Upp – Bir
    F GOF – GOB BOUNCE; RETREAT
    A Mec – Hed
    F BOR – Oer
    F Bru – SOE
    A Mne – Rou
    F SOE – NTH
    A Ske – Wml
    A Lon – Wal
    F Vis H
    F Jrv – Lin BOUNCE

    Arab Caliphates AirsoftAlex
    A Ant – Tsu BOUNCE
    A Pls – Jrs
    F Plo S F SOS – TYR
    F WMS – Cag
    F CYP S A Pls – Jrs
    F SOS – TYR
    A Brg S A Seg – Cat
    A Seg – Cat
    F Ply S A Pls – Jrs

    Burgundy mambam14
    A Hes – Bav
    A Fra S A Hes – Bav
    A Par – Trs
    A Avi S A Trs – Auv
    F TYR – ION
    A Trs – Auv
    A Anc S A Lom – Gen CUT; (illegal order); AUTO DISBAND
    A Abr S F Nap – Rom
    A Kol S A Fra H
    A Ver S A Sav – Zur
    F Nap – Rom
    A Sav – Zur
    A Lom – Ven BOUNCE
    A Gen – Pis BOUNCE

    Slavic Nations GhostEcho
    A Var S A Kar – Bja CUT; AUTO DISBAND
    A Kha – Tre BOUNCE
    F Tre – NBS
    A Beo – Pes BOUNCE
    A Pra S A Bra H
    A Jom H
    A Bra S A Jom H
    A Brs S A Jom H
    A Mem S A Rev H CUT; RETREAT
    A Brs S A Jom H
    A Kar S A Ark - Bja
    F WHI S A Kar – Bja
    A Ark – Bja
    A Prz – Rut

    Sverige Pharaoh of nerds
    F GOB – GOF
    A Rev S F BAL – Mem
    F Pom – Gda
    A Ing – Hol
    F Ost S F GOB – GOF
    A Ald S A Ing – Hol
    F BAL – Mem

    E Roman Empire carter342
    F Syr S F SOS – TYR
    F Rom – Pis BOUNCE; RETREAT
    A Gra S F Spa – Ven
    A Bud S F Spa – Ven
    F WAD S F Ven – Anc
    A Chr S A Ank – Tre
    A Ank – Tre
    F Tsu H
    F Ven – Anc
    F ION – Nap
    F Smy S F Tsu H
    F Spa – Ven

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 03:18
by bluestreaksoccer
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I literally just got home and was about to send them in!!!

I was dead anyway...

Sorry all.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 14:33
by VGhost
Obviously I don't want a redo of this turn - that would be absurd. But I want to protest the way the player exchange was handled here with Pharaoh of nerds taking over from Bazza. There was no formal announcement, it was mentioned casually in this thread, and the latest decision was this one:

Pharaoh of nerds wrote:
Bazza wrote:
Pharaoh of nerds wrote:I am given to undertand that the position of chieftain in Sverige is open?
I will personally tear the still-beating heart out of anyone who opposes me for it! And feed it to the chickens!


Yep!

Would you like to do these orders as well or take over at the next phase?

I'll take over next phase.


As a result, I've been talking only to Bazza so far (and I guess now I understand why I didn't hear much), but at least partly because we had no diplomacy ongoing, Pharaoh of nerds has broken up what so far had been a solid alliance which was, if not exactly making major gains, at least posting solid results.

Like I said, there's nothing to be done about it now, but can we please have more formal announcements - and more correct ones - for any future player substitutions? (Also, I vote we pause the game to find a replacement France.)

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 14:37
by carter342
Well put GhostEcho, I agree with both of your points.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 15:05
by UpQuark
I was given 20 hours notice myself of the resignation and the first reserve declined the position. So there was 13 hours once the first posting was made to the forum and the position accepted (and so there was also public knowledge of a transition in progress), but I was not privy to that until later in the day.

The new Sverige managed to place orders right on the deadline, as Bazza did not submit any. Following those orders was better than CD - as these were orders by the new owner of that position.

A formal announcement was given with the turn results - and it was questionable right up to the deadline whether orders would even be received, much less by whom.

I could have extended the deadline, but the incoming player did not request this (though was given the chance).

I do not find anything wrong with it, other than yes, there is a stab by an ally involved associated with the change in position. But this was a decision by the incoming player.

I will try to find a replacement for France as well.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 16:12
by VGhost
Well, if you know someone's going missing, pause the game so everyone knows.

You say using the new orders was better than an NMR. Maybe in some abstract "sanctity of the game" sense, but for me particularly an NMR on Sverige's part would have been demonstrably better, so I guess forgive me for being upset that this switch was handled differently - and worse - than similar situations have been in any other game I've played.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 21:08
by carter342
Also, not finding someone to replace France has given Burgundy a massive lead. I know its in my interests to oppose that, but it's an unfair advantage for him. I may propose that in future games that a default move for an NMR is a support rather than a hold, even if it is more complicated.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2012, 21:09
by carter342
And by NMR I mean civil disorder :D

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 20 Sep 2012, 02:10
by UpQuark
carter342 wrote:Also, not finding someone to replace France has given Burgundy a massive lead. I know its in my interests to oppose that, but it's an unfair advantage for him. I may propose that in future games that a default move for an NMR is a support rather than a hold, even if it is more complicated.


France has only just NMR'd from the game with this turn. Between NMR's he submitted retreats, so it was not predicted and not sequential. The House Rules were followed for both situations (and reflect the typical forum GM house rules as well). As to defaulting to support orders, this is very complicated as there must be a prescribed methodology for which units support which other units, such that the GM makes no determination on this and it is known in advance what the results would be. There are a lot of potential situations and issues with cut supports from one province over others, etc, which make this essentially not feasible. The best result is to not have NMRs... and those who do so obviously need to be aware of the impact to the other players in the game as well as the GM. I only allow 2 before removal, less than most GMs on the site. He even tried to submit orders 2.5 hours after the deadline - but I am fairly punctual with regard adjudication (and allow 4 days for turns), and the results were already posted (and his removal announced).

I am now at a point where I only need France's retreats to process the Summer turn and move to Fall - though there is no current France player. Default House Rules for an NMR would be to Disband both units, but at this point I will try to find a player to submit orders. I do not believe it will make a difference by the end of Fall, but there is a request to extend the deadline until a French replacement can be found.

I shall try and find a replacement France before continuing, unless I receive unanimous requests to proceed with France in CD - and I do not expect that to occur.

Re: Viking Diplomacy Spring 952

PostPosted: 20 Sep 2012, 04:47
by UpQuark
Summer retreats are in.

France has been taken over by KidneyBean, graciously putting himself in the way of your axes and maces and ready for some skull crushing. I certainly appreciate his volunteering to take on this daunting - and perhaps short lived - task.

Deadline for Fall 952 Orders is Sunday 23 September 2300 UTC.

viking_Su952.gif


    RETREATS

    France KidneyBean
    A Zur – StG
    F Bav – Tir

    Danmark Mouse
    DISBAND GOF

    Slavic Nations GhostEcho
    A Mem - Vit

    E Roman Empire carter342
    F Rom - LIG