Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Future game ideas/adverts which are not currently open for sign-ups

Moderators: Zoomzip, Telleo, bkbkbk, condude1, sjg11

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Crunkus_old » 04 Jan 2015, 07:43

I think maintaining the power of a working pair in the early game is reasonable considering the mechanism of it only working in a full pair. The pairs should be relevant to actions like night kills and such...it's part of the interest of the mechanic. It self balances because the game has built in incentives to see the pairs reduced to one off's fairly quickly. Reducing the initial power reduces that interesting aspect of the game and it simply boils down to an oddity that has little effect on game play.

If you're going to do it, I think the initial vision makes more sense. It has the potential to be more swingy...but it also makes it matter. You can't lose sight of that. Sometimes swingy is the consequence for a mechanic making a difference in the game play.
(sigh)
Crunkus_old
 
Posts: 17650
Joined: 05 Feb 2009, 23:51
Class: Star Ambassador
All-game rating: (944)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby asudevil » 04 Jan 2015, 16:30

But depending on how Rolan deals with ties...the scum COULD control the lynch with 6 players left ... and only 2 scum.

If the 2 scum are a pair...and the four townies are singles (cause it was 5 singles ... scum night kill a single) ... The voting power is now 2v2...depending on how Rolan deals with ties. (normally he goes with whoever gets their first...so its faster for the scum to get to the 2 than the townies...fewer to organize)

So despite still half the players being alive, the town already has lost despite only 2 mislynches (instead of the normal 3)
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Rolan A Doobie » 04 Jan 2015, 17:01

asudevil wrote:But depending on how Rolan deals with ties...the scum COULD control the lynch with 6 players left ... and only 2 scum.

If the 2 scum are a pair...and the four townies are singles (cause it was 5 singles ... scum night kill a single) ... The voting power is now 2v2...depending on how Rolan deals with ties. (normally he goes with whoever gets their first...so its faster for the scum to get to the 2 than the townies...fewer to organize)

So despite still half the players being alive, the town already has lost despite only 2 mislynches (instead of the normal 3)


2 things here....

1) That's a lot of worst-case scenarios piling up here. First, the odds of there being a scum pair is pretty low compared to it being 3 town-town and 3 town-scum pairs.

2) I don't think I've ever dealt with ties that way. I kinda hate that method. I use the lottery system in Ladies Night games, or I use a secret system that I say I won't make public (and never have)....or I flat out say it will be a random pick among the tied players.



I definitely want the "strength in numbers" element of the voting to matter.....not just on Day One, but throughout the entire game. Maybe .5+.5=2 (or 1+1=4) accomplishes that better.

Much thinking to do have I.
Some of you I know, some of you I'm meeting for the first time...
User avatar
Rolan A Doobie
 
Posts: 5303
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 08:10
Location: Space Volcano
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby asudevil » 04 Jan 2015, 17:07

A lot of worst case I knew...I am sorry for forgetting how you deal with ties.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Crunkus_old » 04 Jan 2015, 18:43

asudevil wrote:But depending on how Rolan deals with ties...the scum COULD control the lynch with 6 players left ... and only 2 scum.


That scenario is completely unlikely and if they do so, the scum deserves to win.

asudevil wrote:If the 2 scum are a pair...and the four townies are singles (cause it was 5 singles ... scum night kill a single) ... The voting power is now 2v2...depending on how Rolan deals with ties. (normally he goes with whoever gets their first...so its faster for the scum to get to the 2 than the townies...fewer to organize)

So despite still half the players being alive, the town already has lost despite only 2 mislynches (instead of the normal 3)


This ignores the context of a town that thought for that many lynches that the only remaining pair was essentially the most town of any of them and ignoring the danger of the possibility that that was what was occurring. These facts exist within a context. That context IS the variant.
(sigh)
Crunkus_old
 
Posts: 17650
Joined: 05 Feb 2009, 23:51
Class: Star Ambassador
All-game rating: (944)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby anaupr » 08 Jan 2015, 04:09

I would definitely play this. For the voting, how about each vote counts for one, and if the members of the family vote together their votes count for a total of 3, which is plus .5 for each person.
anaupr
 
Posts: 1250
Joined: 15 Jul 2014, 00:33
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (924)
All-game rating: (928)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Keirador » 25 Jan 2015, 22:11

Sounds fun. Regarding the possibility of a pair being both scum, it seems that this is fairly universally thought of as a negative, but an unlikely one, so nobody's bothered. Why not just rule it out? Say that the three players are randomly chose to be the agents, and then a family is randomly chosen for them to be a part of without replacement, so if an agent is randomly assigned to Cosa Nostra, Cosa Nostra is then off the table for assignation to the other two agents. Yes, this creates an auto-clearing mechanic if a scum is caught, but 1) this set-up seems a little friendly to the mafia off the bat anyhow, so I definitely consider a pro-town mechanic a feature rather than a bug, and 2) the scum have an unblockable night kill, so they can immediately take out anybody who gets auto-cleared by their partner turning up scum if they wish to, though they'll have to sacrifice other aims to do so.
Did you know there’s a faceless old woman who secretly lives in your home? It’s true. She’s there now. She’s always there, just out of your sight. Always just out of your sight.
User avatar
Keirador
 
Posts: 10659
Joined: 01 Dec 2008, 21:36
Location: Living secretly in the home of every single resident of Night Vale
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1132)
All-game rating: (1133)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby ika42 » 09 Feb 2015, 10:01

Rolan A Doobie wrote:
asudevil wrote:But depending on how Rolan deals with ties...the scum COULD control the lynch with 6 players left ... and only 2 scum.

If the 2 scum are a pair...and the four townies are singles (cause it was 5 singles ... scum night kill a single) ... The voting power is now 2v2...depending on how Rolan deals with ties. (normally he goes with whoever gets their first...so its faster for the scum to get to the 2 than the townies...fewer to organize)



1) That's a lot of worst-case scenarios piling up here. First, the odds of there being a scum pair is pretty low compared to it being 3 town-town and 3 town-scum pairs.


im going to wait for something more definitive before i give some real input. But this is something that you should consider at least. It may be "unlikely" and is a "worst case scenario" but thats IMO how you should look at setups. If that were to happen (no matter how unlikely) think about how negatively it would impact post-game.

Another way to do it, put yourself in player perspective: how would you feel about it? To lose to such thing that you really had no control over.

I always consider a worst case scenario first and try to fix it from there. If it were to be role based that makes it worst case, then thats different. But if a mechanic based thing can cause such scenario it should be reevaluated. No matter how low the odds are, if it can happen, it needs to be fixed
ika42
 
Posts: 74
Joined: 20 Jan 2015, 02:20
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Crunkus_old » 09 Feb 2015, 14:37

ika42 wrote:im going to wait for something more definitive before i give some real input. But this is something that you should consider at least. It may be "unlikely" and is a "worst case scenario" but thats IMO how you should look at setups. If that were to happen (no matter how unlikely) think about how negatively it would impact post-game.

Another way to do it, put yourself in player perspective: how would you feel about it? To lose to such thing that you really had no control over.

I always consider a worst case scenario first and try to fix it from there. If it were to be role based that makes it worst case, then thats different. But if a mechanic based thing can cause such scenario it should be reevaluated. No matter how low the odds are, if it can happen, it needs to be fixed


I agree in general but not in this specific.

Except it isn't just unlikely. That outcome wouldn't be something outside the town's control.

It would require the town making poor decisions and the mafia making good decisions. It's not purely a worst case scenario random set up-wise...the town also has to play in such a way that ignores this as a possibility and make several bad decisions.

The town would deserve to lose. As a town player in that perspective, I would absolutely accept that loss as something I had control over.
(sigh)
Crunkus_old
 
Posts: 17650
Joined: 05 Feb 2009, 23:51
Class: Star Ambassador
All-game rating: (944)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Crime Family Mafia -- Feedback Welcomed

Postby Micro98 » 20 Feb 2015, 02:16

First off, introductions: I've got previous mafia playing experience and I have heard that this is a high-skilled and interesting forum to play on and it should be nice to get to know you all. Now, to business...

The chances that there will be a scum pair is actually equally likely to the chances that there won't.

Let scum1 be placed on family1.
Now there is a 1 in 6 chance that scum2 will be placed on family1 and a 5/6 chance he will be placed in another family - let that family be family2.
Now there is a 1 in 3 (2 in 6) chance that scum3 will be placed on family1 or family2.
1/6 + 1/3 = 1/2.

Assuming the scum pair lands on family1, the families look like:
F1 = s1s2
F2 = s3t1
F3 = t2t3
F4 = t4t5
F5 = t6t7
F6 = t8t9

So the scum have between 5 and 8 votes depending upon how much townie1 trusts/agrees with scum3.

I haven't seen anywhere you posting about whether it is day or night start but I'll assume night as from my experience that is the norm.

N0: scum kill not-townie1 (townie2) - certain
D1: town mislynch not-townie1/3 (townie4) - 6/11 (raw odds only - haven't got the time right now for anything more complex looking at town strategies to deal with voting and the like, adjust depending on how highly you rat day1 scum hunting)
F1 = s1s2, F2 = s3t1, F3 = t3, F4 = t5, F5 = t6t7, F6 = t8t9
N1: scum kill not-townie1/3/5 (townie6) - certain
F1 = s1s2, F2 = s3t1, F3 = t3, F4 = t5, F5 = t7, F6 = t8t9
D2: town max voting power = 8, scum max/min voting power = 8/5, essentially townie1 swings whether the scum or the town hit their max voting power and so has to catch a scum right here or the town loses. Furthermore, if townie8 believes townie9 to be scum or vice versa and refuses to vote with them on the theory that they are townie1 in the above situation then the town's voting power comes down to 5 and the scum are at 5 themselves (6 if townie8/9 is voting for a townie) so here you get a random generator for the win if scum want it as best case scenario.

This leads me to the conclusion that optimum play is to vote as per usual and then to get everyone to pile onto the leading target at days end as there is a 3/11 (1/2 * 6/11) chance that this is what you get if you play with the voting system which I'm guessing isn't what you want as it removes the voting mechanic from the game.

This was written in a bit of a rush so feel free to quiz me about how I got any of the numbers/assumptions if you want.

Finally: whilst I am a bit of a maths nerd I insist that I am vaguely interesting to talk to and a nice (enough) guy ;)
Micro98
 
Posts: 98
Joined: 20 Feb 2015, 01:31
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (924)
All-game rating: (925)
Timezone: GMT

PreviousNext

Return to In Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest