The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

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The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Rolan A Doobie » 10 Dec 2012, 03:06

I'm not entirely sure where to put this thread, so I'll put it here and if it should be moved, then feel free to do so.


I would like to re-run the Krispy Kreme Blood Bath game repeatedly, until there have been a total of at least 10 games played. In the first game, just recently completed, the Mafia team was victorious.


Because of the large number of creative people here, nearly everyone has an idea they want to work into a game. These games are built, played, and then everyone moves on to the next creation. Nearly every game on this forum is played just once and then archived. I'm not complaining about this at all, and in fact many of those games would not lend themselves to repeat plays for multiple reasons, such as secretive elements and larger rosters.

But KKBB has no secret mechanics, all roles and abilities are public knowledge. Also, this is a small game, only 8 players, so it goes quickly. It seems like an ideal game for something that doesn't happen on this forum -- a balance test.

But of course, a balance test requires a large enough sample size. Obviously balance can't be determined with just one iteration of the game. While the Mafia won Game 1, perhaps the Town would win each of the next 9 games, revealing that the game is truly broken. Or perhaps it would end up as an even 5-5 split, which would be nice as far as my ego is concerned.


So...I would like to gauge the interest of the players here in undertaking this project. Does this sound like something you would like to participate in, or something you would avoid like the plague?
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby asudevil » 10 Dec 2012, 03:22

I would play a couple more of them...although the concept of No lynching day 1 and 2 is a given now...(kinda)
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Rolan A Doobie » 10 Dec 2012, 03:36

asudevil wrote:I would play a couple more of them...although the concept of No lynching day 1 and 2 is a given now...(kinda)


And that's part of why I'd like to do this.

Strategies that may not always be apparent on a first play-through may become crystal clear after a few games. For instance...
- The Town may be against no-lynching at first, but then may discover it's the best plan.
- The Mafia may have trouble creating false investigation results that hold up to scrutiny, but then should get better at it.

While everyone was kind of struggling with the mechanics in this first game, by the time the 10th game starts, there should probably be a general strategy in place for both sides, built upon the successes and failures of previous games.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby asudevil » 10 Dec 2012, 04:10

Rolan A Doobie wrote:
asudevil wrote:I would play a couple more of them...although the concept of No lynching day 1 and 2 is a given now...(kinda)


And that's part of why I'd like to do this.

Strategies that may not always be apparent on a first play-through may become crystal clear after a few games. For instance...
- The Town may be against no-lynching at first, but then may discover it's the best plan.
- The Mafia may have trouble creating false investigation results that hold up to scrutiny, but then should get better at it.

While everyone was kind of struggling with the mechanics in this first game, by the time the 10th game starts, there should probably be a general strategy in place for both sides, built upon the successes and failures of previous games.


This would also require people to play multiple games, cause while the extra investigates would work well for the no lynch...at the same time, the scum hunting and looking at voting results isn't.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby diplomat42 » 10 Dec 2012, 04:33

So in. This is a great idea.

I think the town will do better, though, because they get more and more information on strategies as the game goes on, and information is what a town desperately needs.

(Also, say we're running this 9 more times. If the town wins the next 6, would you consider changing the balance slightly? Or is this going to be played EXACTLY the same way come what may?)
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Rolan A Doobie » 10 Dec 2012, 04:50

diplomat42 wrote:So in. This is a great idea.

I think the town will do better, though, because they get more and more information on strategies as the game goes on, and information is what a town desperately needs.


While there is truth to this, the scums will also have opportunity to adapt and evolve better strategies.



(Also, say we're running this 9 more times. If the town wins the next 6, would you consider changing the balance slightly? Or is this going to be played EXACTLY the same way come what may?)


No, I think I'll run it 9 more times exactly as it is now. The Mafia won Game 1, so the Town could win games 2-7 and the Mafia win games 8-10....and there would end up being a 6/4 split in the total wins.

Once 10 games are in the books, then I'd think about tweaking something.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby diplomat42 » 10 Dec 2012, 04:51

OK...

A thought: What if we add a subforum similar to DVFG's TestBed for this purpose--to test balance for either a specific or generic game.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Petunia » 10 Dec 2012, 08:44

I'd like to participate.

I suggest you strongly consider nixing the N0 NK even at this early phase, then give it 10 runthroughs. One mislynch and the town is in dire straits.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Rolan A Doobie » 10 Dec 2012, 08:51

Petunia wrote:I'd like to participate.

I suggest you strongly consider nixing the N0 NK even at this early phase, then give it 10 runthroughs. One mislynch and the town is in dire straits.


Did you really think that through, or are you just adverse to the idea of someone dying before getting a chance to say anything?


Because getting rid of the nightkill also means getting rid of all the investigations, and then there's no point of having a Night Zero at all.

So then the game would start with Day One, with no information to work from, likely resulting in a mislynch (like most Day One's do). After the Night One scumkill, Day Two starts with a 4-2 town-scum ratio, and the town has only 1 night's worth of investigation, leaving the town in much worse straits.
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Re: The Krispy Kreme Blood Bath Project : Balance Test

Postby Petunia » 10 Dec 2012, 21:14

Clearly if no N0 NK means no N0 investigates, that's worse for the town. I didn't realize those two things were necessarily linked. I guess it makes less sense for there to be investigations without a murder, but it's not like the current setup is any more 'realistic'. Either way, you're the GM.
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