Page 20 of 21

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 04:57
by condude1
RedSun wrote:Hey guys I'm thinking of hosting a mafia game after Telleo (unless there is another game in queue or if people aren't interested).
I'm going to try to keep it relatively basic as it'll be the first mafia game I host but I have some questions for more experienced mafia designers.

A) How many mislynches should town have before they loose?
In GQ the number was 4 as sjg, Parabellum, UDC and whoever was killed the last day.
Should the number be the same or higher or lower?

B) I want to have some roles. Is it okay to keep some of them hidden mechanics to avoid role calls?

C) Anything else I should know in order to keep balance.


A) I generally go with approximately Acceptable Mislynches=#of scum. I find 10-3, 12-3, 7-2, or 9-2 are generally pretty safe bets, depending on how townsided/scumsided roles are. Others may disagree, but most of my debacles have been caused by messed up mechanics, not ratios.

B) Yes. Roles are generally hidden.

C) Be very very very very careful about role combos. Doc+Cop, for example, turns the game into "follow-the-cop" (Protect the cop with the doc, and use the cop to clear enough people to win), especially if the town knows the doc's in the game. Blockers are supercops with only 1 scum left if they can block the NK, meaning doc+blocker can practically end the game once there's only 1 scum left.

I generally find thinking over how the game could play out is the surest way to stop this sort of thing. Pretend you're a townie with knowledge of everything trying to break the game. Can you? If so, put in the least intrusive counter to that strategy. Make sure it actually stops the problem though (In Push/Pull, I thought of the town's strategy while writing up the rules, but my counter to it failed miserably)!

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 02:33
by RedSun
condude1 wrote:
RedSun wrote:Hey guys I'm thinking of hosting a mafia game after Telleo (unless there is another game in queue or if people aren't interested).
I'm going to try to keep it relatively basic as it'll be the first mafia game I host but I have some questions for more experienced mafia designers.

A) How many mislynches should town have before they loose?
In GQ the number was 4 as sjg, Parabellum, UDC and whoever was killed the last day.
Should the number be the same or higher or lower?

B) I want to have some roles. Is it okay to keep some of them hidden mechanics to avoid role calls?

C) Anything else I should know in order to keep balance.


A) I generally go with approximately Acceptable Mislynches=#of scum. I find 10-3, 12-3, 7-2, or 9-2 are generally pretty safe bets, depending on how townsided/scumsided roles are. Others may disagree, but most of my debacles have been caused by messed up mechanics, not ratios.

B) Yes. Roles are generally hidden.

C) Be very very very very careful about role combos. Doc+Cop, for example, turns the game into "follow-the-cop" (Protect the cop with the doc, and use the cop to clear enough people to win), especially if the town knows the doc's in the game. Blockers are supercops with only 1 scum left if they can block the NK, meaning doc+blocker can practically end the game once there's only 1 scum left.

I generally find thinking over how the game could play out is the surest way to stop this sort of thing. Pretend you're a townie with knowledge of everything trying to break the game. Can you? If so, put in the least intrusive counter to that strategy. Make sure it actually stops the problem though (In Push/Pull, I thought of the town's strategy while writing up the rules, but my counter to it failed miserably)!


So I've decided on a 9 Good Guys and 3 Bad Guys. Although each side has roles unknown to the other side.
This allows for 3 mislynches at a minimum.

So I have the hidden roles written down.
I'm wondering since roles are hidden what do I make public other than:
9 good guys, 3 bad guys
No End Day Vote
One person must be killed each day, if a tie then a hidden mechanic resolves the tie.
48 hours a day and 24 hours a night

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 05:06
by musashisamurai
Not an expert, RedSun, but maybe you should move that to PM so anyone playing don't accidentally metagame. Also I def recommend just making it 9-2 or 10-3 rather than 9-2. That s just my own experience though, so that game nay have just been an outlier

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 06:27
by RedSun
musashisamurai wrote:Not an expert, RedSun, but maybe you should move that to PM so anyone playing don't accidentally metagame. Also I def recommend just making it 9-2 or 10-3 rather than 9-2. That s just my own experience though, so that game nay have just been an outlier


All that is there I'm fine being public. The only thing hidden are roles and I'm fine with people knowing that there are hidden roles just not what the roles are. I'll make it 10-3 if you think it makes it safer but does the forum have enough members to host a game of that size? I think with the mechanics involved 9-3 and 10-3 should both work although if we get 13 players I'll definitely do 10-3.

On a sidenote I also used condude's method of evaluating it and I don't really see a way the town or scum can break the game.

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 06:33
by Nanook
RedSun wrote:
musashisamurai wrote:Not an expert, RedSun, but maybe you should move that to PM so anyone playing don't accidentally metagame. Also I def recommend just making it 9-2 or 10-3 rather than 9-2. That s just my own experience though, so that game nay have just been an outlier


All that is there I'm fine being public. The only thing hidden are roles and I'm fine with people knowing that there are hidden roles just not what the roles are. I'll make it 10-3 if you think it makes it safer but does the forum have enough members to host a game of that size? I think with the mechanics involved 9-3 and 10-3 should both work although if we get 13 players I'll definitely do 10-3.

On a sidenote I also used condude's method of evaluating it and I don't really see a way the town or scum can break the game.

Fable 10 was/is 13 players. I think Galaxy Quest was 12 or 13. Might take awhile for recruiting, but 13 should probably be doable, especially if it's an interesting concept.

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 18:38
by RedSun
nanooktheeskimo wrote:
RedSun wrote:
musashisamurai wrote:Not an expert, RedSun, but maybe you should move that to PM so anyone playing don't accidentally metagame. Also I def recommend just making it 9-2 or 10-3 rather than 9-2. That s just my own experience though, so that game nay have just been an outlier


All that is there I'm fine being public. The only thing hidden are roles and I'm fine with people knowing that there are hidden roles just not what the roles are. I'll make it 10-3 if you think it makes it safer but does the forum have enough members to host a game of that size? I think with the mechanics involved 9-3 and 10-3 should both work although if we get 13 players I'll definitely do 10-3.

On a sidenote I also used condude's method of evaluating it and I don't really see a way the town or scum can break the game.

Fable 10 was/is 13 players. I think Galaxy Quest was 12 or 13. Might take awhile for recruiting, but 13 should probably be doable, especially if it's an interesting concept.


Ok :)

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 00:07
by RedSun
Rules wrote:At 3:00 A.M. in London the day will End.

A single day is 72 hours
A single night is 24 hours

There are hidden roles which are revealed to their user at the beginning of the game along with their respective powers.
There is no hidden day chat and hidden conversations happen at night. During the day all discussions will happen in the main thread.

Everyday 1 person must be lynched. In the case of a tie there is a hidden mechanic that decides it.

Upon death alignment is revealed but their role will not.

There are three evil aligned characters and ten righteous aligned characters.

The game ends when every player has either achieved their win condition or their loss condition.

Be respectful of each other. The GM reserves the right to remove and replace participants for inactivity, inacceptable behavior, rule breaking and anything the GM believes is taking away from game in a negative manner.

End day is not an option.
If the day is over and I am unfortunately not present to end it you still may not vote after the deadline or continue discussions. Votes after the deadline will not be counted.


Is there anything I'm missing or should consider?

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 00:39
by sjg11
1. What are the victory conditions of the two factions? I'd recommend putting this in the rules or it's too easy for a Mafia to get caught not knowing the win conditions which is a piece of information which they had no way of knowing. This is, frankly, unfair on the Mafia.
2. So no lynch is not an option in this game?
3. So votes cannot take place after the deadline? Conversation isn't even allowed to continue?
4. What happens to people who NMR with their night orders?
5. Do speed deadlines apply?

Just a few questions off the top of my head...

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 01:24
by RedSun
sjg11 wrote:1. What are the victory conditions of the two factions? I'd recommend putting this in the rules or it's too easy for a Mafia to get caught not knowing the win conditions which is a piece of information which they had no way of knowing. This is, frankly, unfair on the Mafia.
2. So no lynch is not an option in this game?
3. So votes cannot take place after the deadline? Conversation isn't even allowed to continue?
4. What happens to people who NMR with their night orders?
5. Do speed deadlines apply?

Just a few questions off the top of my head...


1. These are the win conditions unless your role has specified otherwise.
Win Conditions:
Mafia more numerous than town for scum win
Mafia all dead for town win

2. No lynch isn't an option although you may abstain from a lynch.

3. I'll allow conversation but votes are definetely not allowed after the deadline.

4. If you NMR with night orders I'll provide a 24 hour grace period in which you may submit orders. If your orders are not submitted by that time frame I'll seek a replacement although the next day will commence. No role is so significant the game cannot function without it although it may unbalance it slightly. Hopefully a replacement will take on the role during the day phase and it won't be a recurrent problem.

5. What do you mean by speed deadlines?

Re: Mafia Ideas & Discussion

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 01:31
by Nanook
Speed deadlines are basically end night--if everyone with a night order enters it and says they're good to go, night ends. Basically finalizing.

What happens at parity? Do scum win or does the game continue?