Rules Summary (official)

15-player synthetic variant based on ... well, you know. Starts 2989 (Third Age). Created by Magmaniac.

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Steppenwulf » 17 Mar 2009, 18:01

davidmorton wrote:Good questions. This one isn't possible though. If a fleet splits up then the army moves out and the fleet holds. You can't do it a different way.


Wait a second - I disagree with this answer. I think you must be able to move a fleet away while the army holds, or it doesn't make sense.

From a practical point of view, this just means the army gets off the boats and waves from the shore while the boats sail away.

From a game playing point of view, what if there is no nearby province to move the army to, but you want the empty fleet in the water - or what if you want to make sure to hold the province, but still move the fleet?

This is not really different from a full fleet in a river in which the army disembarks to a coastal province while the fleet holds - the difference being that since the full fleet was already in dock, the ships has to set sail, rather than the army moving.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby davidmorton » 18 Mar 2009, 00:39

I can only say, that is the current ruling as laid down by Magmaniac, who created this variant. If you disagree with it, then you must get him to change the rules.

I agree, the rule does seem a little strange in this case, but most games have rules that don't exactly fit with real life experience. Sometimes it is for good reasons, sometimes not. As long as everyone knows what they are, then the game is fair.

Anyway, if you think it would be better with the rule you suggest then talk to Magmaniac. Myself, I think you are probably right, but it's not up to me.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 18 Mar 2009, 00:50

The point is to inhibit the use of empty fleets. Empty fleets need to be inhibited in use because they are not meant to be used as a primary tool, more like just an assistance for the armies. They especially need to be inhibited because they are unlimited, you can build more every turn pretty much, so in the lategame there will be empty fleets everywhere, and it would be overpowered of them to let them move more independently without such restrictions.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Steppenwulf » 18 Mar 2009, 01:13

Magmaniac wrote:The point is to inhibit the use of empty fleets. Empty fleets need to be inhibited in use because they are not meant to be used as a primary tool, more like just an assistance for the armies. They especially need to be inhibited because they are unlimited, you can build more every turn pretty much, so in the lategame there will be empty fleets everywhere, and it would be overpowered of them to let them move more independently without such restrictions.


I understand the inhibition of the power of empty fleets - the potential arithmetic increase in the number of fleets on the board was the point of one of my flippant posts earlier. I would even suggest that an alternative way to solve this would simply be to allow countries to build fleets or armies on supply centres, as per normal rules - this prevents arithmetic increase, and fleets can only be built on coastal supply centres - problem solved, Of course there is probably something else you thought of that I am not thinking of, but it seems like a neat little solution.

But that is another question - the weakness of empty fleets, especially the ability for an enemy to take over an empty fleet from a nearby province I think does strongly inhibit the use of empty fleets.

In this case, the rule that an empty fleet can't separate from a full fleet, leaving an army to hold while it enters the water seems arbritary, and restricts what looks to be a natural application of the other rules.

Hey, it's your game, your rules, and I am really enjoying it. The new types of fleets are a lot of fun. But I think this specific rule to not allow "an empty fleet to split from a full fleet in a coastal province, leaving an army that holds in the coastal province, and an empty fleet in the nearby waterway" is worth reconsidering.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Wellington » 22 Mar 2009, 21:28

Does "Same rules as standard Diplomacy" mean that the first nation to control 18 SCs gets the solo win?
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 22 Mar 2009, 22:05

No, first to majority of centers.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Wellington » 22 Mar 2009, 22:13

Magmaniac wrote:No, first to majority of centers.


Not trusting my ability to count all the dots on the map, how many is a majority?
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 22 Mar 2009, 22:48

Well...
There are 155 centers.
So majority would be 78.

...That's a lot. <_< Maybe it should be less than that...
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 12 Oct 2009, 04:14

Bump bumpitty bump bump.
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Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Steppenwulf » 24 Oct 2009, 06:26

Quick question about fleets again.

First of all, I love Full and Empty fleets - makes a lot of sense and makes the game more interesting.

But I do find the rules about how a full fleet can separate into an empty fleet very confusing and can never keep them straight.

I really really ask if it would be possible to just let a full fleet split into an empty fleet and an empty army on any turn, with each unit making a normal move?

But if not, can you please tell me, if a full fleet is in port (i.e. in a province on a sea or river), what can the army and empty fleet do if they want to separate? Can they each move, or only the empty fleet move, or only the army move?

If you want to avoid tedious explanations and just say they can each do a normal move, it is ok by me ;)
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