Rules Summary (official)

15-player synthetic variant based on ... well, you know. Starts 2989 (Third Age). Created by Magmaniac.

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby ogodwatisthis » 24 Oct 2009, 07:32

Steppenwulf wrote:Quick question about fleets again.

First of all, I love Full and Empty fleets - makes a lot of sense and makes the game more interesting.

But I do find the rules about how a full fleet can separate into an empty fleet very confusing and can never keep them straight.

I really really ask if it would be possible to just let a full fleet split into an empty fleet and an empty army on any turn, with each unit making a normal move?

But if not, can you please tell me, if a full fleet is in port (i.e. in a province on a sea or river), what can the army and empty fleet do if they want to separate? Can they each move, or only the empty fleet move, or only the army move?

If you want to avoid tedious explanations and just say they can each do a normal move, it is ok by me ;)



i discussed this very thing last game with mag as it is confusing , and i believe we settled on that with regards to a full fleet, one half of the 'full' fleet must remain stationary during one season if you want to separate. the move out of the fleet would then leave an empty fleet in that province with the army in an adjoining land province, OR the army remains in the initial province and the empty fleet moves to an adjoining river/sea/land province (which is not 'captured')

hope that clears it up, i think the full fleet section in the rules pretty much covers it though
ogodwatisthis
 
Posts: 228
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 05:21
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 24 Oct 2009, 10:49

ogodwatisthis wrote:
Steppenwulf wrote:Quick question about fleets again.

First of all, I love Full and Empty fleets - makes a lot of sense and makes the game more interesting.

But I do find the rules about how a full fleet can separate into an empty fleet very confusing and can never keep them straight.

I really really ask if it would be possible to just let a full fleet split into an empty fleet and an empty army on any turn, with each unit making a normal move?

But if not, can you please tell me, if a full fleet is in port (i.e. in a province on a sea or river), what can the army and empty fleet do if they want to separate? Can they each move, or only the empty fleet move, or only the army move?

If you want to avoid tedious explanations and just say they can each do a normal move, it is ok by me ;)



i discussed this very thing last game with mag as it is confusing , and i believe we settled on that with regards to a full fleet, one half of the 'full' fleet must remain stationary during one season if you want to separate. the move out of the fleet would then leave an empty fleet in that province with the army in an adjoining land province, OR the army remains in the initial province and the empty fleet moves to an adjoining river/sea/land province (which is not 'captured')

hope that clears it up, i think the full fleet section in the rules pretty much covers it though


Right, so you can separate a fleet by moving the army or the empy fleet, so long as the other half is holding.
User avatar
Magmaniac
 
Posts: 1028
Joined: 27 May 2008, 07:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Steppenwulf » 24 Oct 2009, 17:42

Magmaniac wrote:
ogodwatisthis wrote:
Steppenwulf wrote:Quick question about fleets again.

First of all, I love Full and Empty fleets - makes a lot of sense and makes the game more interesting.

But I do find the rules about how a full fleet can separate into an empty fleet very confusing and can never keep them straight.

I really really ask if it would be possible to just let a full fleet split into an empty fleet and an empty army on any turn, with each unit making a normal move?

But if not, can you please tell me, if a full fleet is in port (i.e. in a province on a sea or river), what can the army and empty fleet do if they want to separate? Can they each move, or only the empty fleet move, or only the army move?

If you want to avoid tedious explanations and just say they can each do a normal move, it is ok by me ;)



i discussed this very thing last game with mag as it is confusing , and i believe we settled on that with regards to a full fleet, one half of the 'full' fleet must remain stationary during one season if you want to separate. the move out of the fleet would then leave an empty fleet in that province with the army in an adjoining land province, OR the army remains in the initial province and the empty fleet moves to an adjoining river/sea/land province (which is not 'captured')

hope that clears it up, i think the full fleet section in the rules pretty much covers it though


Right, so you can separate a fleet by moving the army or the empy fleet, so long as the other half is holding.


Thanks - much simpler. Cool!
"The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy"
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
Steppenwulf
 
Posts: 510
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 05:55
Location: Canada
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1021)
All-game rating: (1023)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby raphtown » 24 Oct 2009, 19:26

So, does that mean if you are moving downstream, you could move one square down the river and then move the army off the ship as the second move? Is anything involving offloading or loading permitted in a double-move?

Could you move the fleet one square downstream and then load an army onto it while the fleet holds, both on the same turn?
The Classicists are a group dedicated to reducing player NMRs.
User avatar
raphtown
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:07
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Magmaniac » 24 Oct 2009, 19:35

No, the fleet's double move can only be two moves, otherwise order adjudication would be far too complicated. The mechanic is meant to be a way to represent the difference between sailing upriver an downriver, so if a fleet was holding to pick up or disembark an army it would be stationary and thus not using the river's current as an advantage.
User avatar
Magmaniac
 
Posts: 1028
Joined: 27 May 2008, 07:41
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Stander » 15 Nov 2009, 02:31

davidmorton wrote:3.3 When an army leaves a fleet, the empty fleet left behind may do a convoy on the same turn.

8.2 If an army tries to board and empty fleet that is convoying an army, the result is a stand off. The convoy fails and the army fails to capture the fleet.


Rule 3.3
Using the current map situation am I right in thinking that if I wanted to this turn I could order (say) A(8) - Mir + F(8) C A(Mig) - Saf + A(Mig) - Saf and assuming nobody else's orders caused a bounce that this lot would be all work?

Rule 8.2
What happens if the army attempting to board and steal an empty fleet (which is convoying) has that move supported?
Does it make any difference at all or would it still bounce whilst still preventing the convoy?
And what dfifferences would there be if the convoyed army was supported into it's target province? Would an unspported attck on a empty convoying fleet still disrupt that convoy? Would it still disrput the convoy if the army was supported into it's target and the empty fleet was also supported to hold.
I will be running the London Marathon on 22nd April 2012 to raise funds to help disabled children and in memory of my darling wife who sadly passed away in January 2012.

To find out more or to donate please visit:- http://www.justgiving.com/BigRunningFool
User avatar
Stander
Elite Sponsor
Elite Sponsor
 
Posts: 2088
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 23:19
Location: Mainly running the streets of Essex, getting wet, cold and bloody miserable.
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Stander » 16 Nov 2009, 15:16

Random *cough* to see if anyone wants to reply to my post above?
I will be running the London Marathon on 22nd April 2012 to raise funds to help disabled children and in memory of my darling wife who sadly passed away in January 2012.

To find out more or to donate please visit:- http://www.justgiving.com/BigRunningFool
User avatar
Stander
Elite Sponsor
Elite Sponsor
 
Posts: 2088
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 23:19
Location: Mainly running the streets of Essex, getting wet, cold and bloody miserable.
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby ogodwatisthis » 16 Nov 2009, 15:21

Stander wrote:Random *cough* to see if anyone wants to reply to my post above?



3.3 you are correct

8.2 those are some good questions XD and its early, i will get back with a firm answer after class when i can think straight, that is , one that makes sense in regards to the other rules already put forth. i dont want to make a confusing rule statement now...that ok?
ogodwatisthis
 
Posts: 228
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 05:21
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby Steppenwulf » 16 Nov 2009, 16:58

ogodwatisthis wrote:
Stander wrote:Random *cough* to see if anyone wants to reply to my post above?



3.3 you are correct

8.2 those are some good questions XD and its early, i will get back with a firm answer after class when i can think straight, that is , one that makes sense in regards to the other rules already put forth. i dont want to make a confusing rule statement now...that ok?


Just for my 2 cents, a fleet convoying an army can't be stronger than a full fleet. So I would assume the fleet would be dislodged and the convoy interrupted if there was a support on the order to attack the fleet (and no corresponding support for the fleet doing the convoying).

A couple of more questions, however. Is it possible to support an order to steal a fleet. For example, can you order an army to move to an enemy empty fleet, and order your own nearby fleet to support that order?

And, can you order the army from within your own full fleet to take over a neighbouring enemy's empty fleet (leaving you with an empty fleet, and a captured full fleet)?
"The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy"
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
Steppenwulf
 
Posts: 510
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 05:55
Location: Canada
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1021)
All-game rating: (1023)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Rules Summary (official)

Postby ogodwatisthis » 16 Nov 2009, 22:08

Stander wrote:
davidmorton wrote:3.3 When an army leaves a fleet, the empty fleet left behind may do a convoy on the same turn.

8.2 If an army tries to board and empty fleet that is convoying an army, the result is a stand off. The convoy fails and the army fails to capture the fleet.


Rule 3.3
Using the current map situation am I right in thinking that if I wanted to this turn I could order (say) A(8) - Mir + F(8) C A(Mig) - Saf + A(Mig) - Saf and assuming nobody else's orders caused a bounce that this lot would be all work?

Rule 8.2
What happens if the army attempting to board and steal an empty fleet (which is convoying) has that move supported?
Does it make any difference at all or would it still bounce whilst still preventing the convoy?
And what dfifferences would there be if the convoyed army was supported into it's target province? Would an unspported attck on a empty convoying fleet still disrupt that convoy? Would it still disrput the convoy if the army was supported into it's target and the empty fleet was also supported to hold.


What happens if the army attempting to board and steal an empty fleet (which is convoying) has that move supported?
Does it make any difference at all or would it still bounce whilst still preventing the convoy?

the convoy is disrupted and the attack succeeds, the supported army would have power 2, the convoyed would just be 1

And what dfifferences would there be if the convoyed army was supported into it's target province? Would an unspported attck on a empty convoying fleet still disrupt that convoy? Would it still disrput the convoy if the army was supported into it's target and the empty fleet was also supported to hold

if you supported into the fleet, the convoy would be broken and the support would never apply as it wouldnt be moving to the destination...think of it as two moves in one..to the fleet, then to the shore, so interrupt the middle, the shore doesnt matter. the convoy is only disrupted if the fleet is dislodged barring the above case of army supported in...


armies cannot move between two fleets without first landing on shore
ogodwatisthis
 
Posts: 228
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 05:21
Class: Diplomat
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Previous

Return to Lord Of The Rings [Games 1 & 2] {Maps Visible in Game 2}

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron