London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Game for 7 set in riots in London over one night. Unusual rules! Devised by Andy Mansfield, introduced and GMd by Pedros. Winner: thewysecat (Nurses)

London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 14:13

If you're signing up for the game please do it here: viewtopic.php?f=253&t=23353&p=322374#p322374

This separate thread is for any pre-game discussion about the rules and map, since they are quite unusual. I'm kicking it off with a run-through of some points I've spotted and how I'm thinking of interpreting them. I'm open to discussion and persuasion about any point up to the time the auction for factions takes place; after that it's final (unless something uncertain and not previous covered crops up).

The map is at viewtopic.php?f=253&t=23353&p=322374#p322374 - as I wrote in that thread, south of the river is exactly the same as the original, but I've removed all the four-way intersections in the north (make for bad games). In the south, diagonal movement is possible across them which will make the game more fluid, just like gangs rampaging across the city. The southern SCs are marked differently to emphasise their unusual role - although it's build anywhere in the north, no builds at all in the south. And in the final reckoning the winner is the player with most north SCs x south SCs; I'll post the current scores each Fall before the builds.

And the symbols for the units are now in place.

Thoughts on other rules
1A - Theatre-goers - I just hope I remember not to report their orders!! (But - see the very important questions at viewtopic.php?f=253&t=23484&p=324509#p324509) - I really do need views on them!

1B - Shoppers - don't forget the rule that if you have two builds you can build a 2A in Knightsbridge (whoever owns it, that is!) Note that they have one unsupported unit which will have to be supported in the Fall if it is to survive.

1D - Nurses - note the varying 2A! Unlike the taxi-drivers their moves are OK if they forget to order this, but last time's selection doesn't carry forward.

1E - the Royals - I'll mark the two fortified spaces with small castles once we get going

1F -Taxi Drivers - Note the double move must be ordered. If not, it will be an NMR

1G - City Boys - the hidden SCs known to them will be revealed at the same time as the auction results are announced. Note that there is no rule forbidding them to tell others where hidden centres are, but nothing to say they can't lie about it either!

2 - Multiple armies can never be split, which means they can't divide their orders in two or more directions at once. But if, for instance, the East enders are reduced to 2 SCs then the 3A units will be reduced to 2A, and so on. The Shoppers can choose whether to lose a single unit or reduce the 2A (comments?)

3 - Police: I will write the Police orders immediately after posting the results, so that I can answer any questions which may arise. There is nothing about replacing destroyed police units, and I'm thinking that they are not replaceable. Comments?

4 - Bridges. As it says, no fighting on the bridge and you can't stop a unit moving onto the bridge. Moving off is different - everybody on the bridge can make an order relating to one of the spaces next to it. I suspect there'll be some mass movement to a bridge at some point; how I'm going to show that, I've no idea!

5 - SCs. I assume that "If a supply centre is discovered" means "if somebody enters that space". No need for it to be in a "Fall" season; but a failed order into the space doesn't reveal the SC.

I think that's it. Questions? Comments?
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
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Re: London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Ironhammer » 23 Oct 2011, 14:29

With the hidden SCs, I would only reveal it if it was in a fall phase, it keeps them "hidden" and I think gives better balance against hidden moves and double movers/strength.
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Re: London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Kian » 23 Oct 2011, 15:31

Pedros wrote:
1F -Taxi Drivers - Note the double move must be ordered. If not, it will be an NMR



To retain any vestige of realism, surely there is a rule missing for the Taxi Driver faction?

Taxi Drivers are unable to move across bridges or into any square "South of the River" after 22:00"


I mean, 30 years of frustration tells me this is a universal Taxi Driver Code of Conduct!
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Re: London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 16:04

Kian wrote:
Pedros wrote:
1F -Taxi Drivers - Note the double move must be ordered. If not, it will be an NMR



To retain any vestige of realism, surely there is a rule missing for the Taxi Driver faction?

Taxi Drivers are unable to move across bridges or into any square "South of the River" after 22:00"


I mean, 30 years of frustration tells me this is a universal Taxi Driver Code of Conduct!

:lol: :lol:
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Re: London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 16:07

Ironhammer wrote:With the hidden SCs, I would only reveal it if it was in a fall phase, it keeps them "hidden" and I think gives better balance against hidden moves and double movers/strength.

You may be right Ironhammer, but until we've played it we won't know about balance; each faction has it own extra, and I'm not sure how it will work out. And what about the balance v the City Boys, who will have five hidden centres they know about - they can occupy them and nobody else will even know there's an issue?
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Re: London nights: Map, rules and discussion

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 17:36

The final map with units is now at viewtopic.php?f=253&t=23353&p=322374#p322374

Factions, colours and symbols are as follows:-

Theatre-goers: silver-grey; top hat
Shoppers: light blue; an expensive-looking parcel
Nurses: darker blue; nurse in uniform
Taxi-drivers: purple; black london cab
City boys: red; boler hat
East-enders: green; barrow
Royals: gold; crown (what else?!)

The police don't have a colour (no SCs!), but they do have truncheons!
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Additions to notes to the rules

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 17:40

I've added two more notes to the top post of this topic:-

- note that the Shoppers have one unsupported unit; it will have to be supported in the Fall, or go.

- multiple units can be reduced in size if destroys are needed in any year.

Comments welcome!
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What about the Theatre Goers?

Postby Pedros » 23 Oct 2011, 18:11

A pretty big question just occurred to me:-

Due to their ability to blend in with the background, the Theatre-goers orders are only reported when they are in conflict with the other players or their supply centres. All retreats and adjustments are reported in full.

Does this mean that the Theatre-goers are playing partial Fog of War? For instance, suppose on the opening move:-

Russell Sq - Bloomsbury (Resolved)
Shaftesbury Ave - Cambridge Cicus (Resolved)
Leicester Sq - Victoria Embankment (Bounce with Trafalgar Sq- Victoria Embankment)
Covent Garden - Lincoln's Inn Fields (Resolved)

The Bounce is clear - it's reported and the whereabouts of that unit are known. But what about the others? There's no "report" of the order, but does that mean that the whereabouts of the unit isn't known?

And suppose next move:-

Cambridge Circus supp Bloomsbury - Tottenham Court Rd (Resolved, and no unit to be dislodged)
Leicester Sq Hold (Resolved)
Lincoln's Inn Fields - Leather Lane (Resolved - and Leather Lane is a hidden SC)

Now what? Leather Lane's status is revealed to all, no question. But is the unit still hidden from view? And Tottenham Court Rd - that's a really tricky one. The Goers have two builds - they will be revealed when they're made, and I guess the figures are reported before the build phase like everybody else's (or are they?!) And the Shoppers know they're an SC short - but do they know which?! Is the colour of TCR altered? (which would tell where there that unit is!)

I begin to wonder if this game's ever actually been played before! But anyway, we need to resolve this, and it could take longer than 48 hours! Personally I detest Fog of War (only because my head doesn't work like that!), but I don't have a problem if it's what we decide. It would slow down adjudications though.

On this one I really would like comments!
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House rules

Postby Pedros » 24 Oct 2011, 18:31

Here are my House Rules for the game. The same as for Loeb 9 apart from a couple of things (in italics) demanded by this game.
The NMR rules are obviously important, but please also note my request about titles for your PMs to me and please don't mix orders and other comments/queries to me - otherwise your questions might not get answered in time.

OK, here goes!

Orders Please title your orders "19M - Royals- orders/retreats etc Aug 3rd 1930" (or something similar that I can recognise!) And send them to me by PM.

It's up to you to make sure they're accurate. I will try to - but I don't promise - to open orders as they come in just to check that they are in fact orders; some GMs alert players if they think there's an error; I won't be doing that- I won't read orders in detail until the deadline (this is so that if somebody else asks a question there's no chance of me betraying your secrets! - also because it's the way original Dip rules worked) If it's clear what they mean (I'll accept any recognisable abbreviations so long as they aren't ambiguous) then no problem; but if they're at all ambiguous they're invalid.

I will prepare orders for the Police immediately the previous orders are posted.

Other messages Please title them something different, so I know which is which - otherwise I'll probably assume they're orders and not read them before the deadline! If you ask a rules question then if it's clear I'll answer it; if it's something not clearly covered by the game rules I'll do my best, but in the light of argument from other players I might change my mind after the adjudication. If you think I'm wrong, I expect you to say so loudly and with clear reasons; if you do, I'll listen and consider the arguments (and allow an extension whilst it's sorted out). If a question is asked privately then it will be answered privately.

Deadlines 72-24-24 from the time the new map goes up. I'll send a PM at the same time so there's no excuse for not noticing! but I recommend you subscribe to the new sub-Forum as soon as it's in place so there's no chance of you missing a new topic. And post provisional orders early, just in case!

For movement phases I'll also send a reminder about 24 hours before the deadline (give or take a few hours). This is because I'll then be strict about NMRs - see below

Speed deadlines Once I have orders from all players I will process them as soon as possible, unless they are marked 'Provisional' or similar. (I encourage provisional orders where appropriate to reduce the risk of NMRs.) But if you do send in provisionals, please let me know once you're happy to finalize them, just to move the game along. I may write to check if yours are the only orders waiting to be finalized, but if I do this is a reminder not a hassle! Don't feel pressurized into finalizing before you're ready!

Requests for delays Where there's a good reason I'm happy to accept a delay of deadline, but I don't want this to happen too often - one of the biggest reasons for games failing is that they don't move along quickly enough and players lose interest. But please give as much notice as possible for everybody's sake! In particular, extensions will not be granted at the last minute on 72-hour deadlines simply because access is difficult. Get your provisionals in early!

NMRs I will usually aim to process the orders fairly soon after the deadline, though there may be exceptions. I take the same view as the main site software - if you get orders in a few minutes late but before I begin, you'll get away with it. Once I start opening up orders, it's too late. No exceptions.

Then, three NMRs on movement phases and you're out. Two in succession you're out. For retreat and build phases I take the view if you don't submit it's your problem - you've missed the chance but that's all. If somebody's NMR leads to expulsion then there will be a pause while I try to replace them, and the new player gets a day to talk and post orders. If replacement is difficult I reserve the right to put the faction into Civil Disorder (although I don't like doing this).

And an NMR on the opening Build or Spring phases will bring instant ejection - and the game will be on hold for a replacement. I want the game at least to start properly!

nb - NMRs caused because the Taxi-drivers don't order their extra move do not count as NMRs for the purpose of this rule. This rule is about failure to order,not misorders!

Errors in adjudication
I'm only human, so check the map after orders to make sure I have it right! If there's a substantial error it will delay the deadline, so I'll try to be perfect!

Draws By the rules of the game it shouldn't finish early, but I'll use common sense - if everybody agrees on a result that seems even faintly reasonable then I'll accept it.

I don't think there's anything else demanded by the game; any questions, just ask. And finally, enjoy what should be a good game!
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The Theatre-goers again

Postby Pedros » 24 Oct 2011, 18:40

No rules-related questions as yet, and time's running out.

If it stays that way, then my list of how I'm interpreting the rules will apply for the game.

The post about the Theatre-Goers is a bit different, since I was raising questions there. If I don't hear from anybody, I'll assume there's no strong feeling. In that case, the partial fog-of-war idea will prevail (each faction has some kind of advantage, and that's the one for the Goers). So, it will apply as follows:-

A movement or hold/support order which succeeds will not be reported, and the unit will not appear on the map, unless it discovers an SC. Since there will be no question about who found it, the unit will be displayed but the order which took it there will not be reported.

If a unit occupies and gains an SC in the Fall its presence will be known, so again it will be shown but its move will not be reported. The colour of the SC will be altered as usual after the Fall (retreat if appropriate)

Bounces will be fully reported and the unit''s position revealed.

I don't think there are any other possibilities, but if there are I will apply similar principles.
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