New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

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New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby Sanguinem » 13 May 2009, 22:39

I posted this in the Diplomacy section, but it seems more appropriate to post it here. Let me know what you think!

About 12 years ago, I designed a series of map variants based on the Modern variant. I know, I variant of a variant..how silly. I called them Post-Modern. The first was Europe, using a modified Modern map, extended east and south, adding Iran, Algeria and Nigeria as powers. Then I did a 14 power Africa map, which I may redo at some point. This leads me to this map. I did a 10 power Americas map, but lost it before I could upload it to the web page. It had the USA as a 6 SC power, which not only wasn't realistic, but was unbalanced. With Quebec and Canada as powers, why wouldn't they always ally with each other and grow south? The USA would always be in the way.

Flash forward 12 years. Instead of Microsoft Paint, I now have Photoshop at my disposal :) To combat the geography problem of the USA as a single power, I broke it into 3: the Democrat-leaning "Blue" states, Republican-leaning "Red" states, and Texas. Don't mess with Texas. This makes the USA overall contain a ton of SCs, both neutral and home centers. It also give Canada and Quebec more neighbours, meaning the diplomatic options are far greater.

I selected my 12 powers in the same way Vince Mous did when he created Modern. A population of 30 million gave you 3 centers, 60 million gave you 4, etc. Of course, there's exceptions. Canada has a huge landmass and is a G8 country with a developed economy, so it gets 5 centers. Quebec and Cuba don't have the population to qualify (although Texas does), but for balance and historical reasons are included. Brazil has over 190 million people, so it gets 5 centers too. Peru, Argentina, Columbia, Venezuela all have over 30 million so they get 3 SCs each, while Mexico at 90 million rounds out the powers with 4 starting SCs.

Map notes:
Great Lakes/St. Laurence/Erie Canal:

The Great Lakes are considered Sea zones. Lakes Huron and Michigan are adjacent, but each other Great Lake is not adjacent to any other Great lake. Fleets may move between Great Lakes and adjacent land territories. No territory adjacent to a Great Lake has two coasts (except Ontario). A Fleet occupying a land territory may move to any adjacent Great Lake (eg. F Mic could move to LMi, LHu or LEr).

Fleets can also travel via the Erie Canal through New York State and New York City to access the Atlantic. Another route is via the St. Laurence river, which connects Tor/NYS-Abi-Mon-Gas/Que. Think of them as a series of canal spaces like Kiel or Constantinople in Classic Dip.


Sea Space SCs:

Bahamas and Antilles are sea spaces but also supply centers. The can only be occupied by Fleet or Wing units.


4 corner borders:

There are 2 spots on the map where 4 spaces come to a corner. No space is adjacent to a space diagonal to them. SLC is not adjacent to NMe. Ari is not adjacent to Col. Sas is not adjacent to Nun, and Win is not adjacent to NWT.


Starting Units:
Argentina: F Bue, A Cor, A Ros
Brazil: A Sao, A Rio, A Bra, F Rec, A Man
Canada: F Van, A Cal, A Win, F Tor, A Ott
Columbia: F Bar, F Cal, A Bog
Cuba: F Hav, F Hol, F Cam (sc)
Democratic States: F LA, A SF, A Chi, A Phi, A NJ, F NY, F Bos
Mexico: A Mtr, F Ver, F Aca, A Mex
Peru: F Lim, A Tru, A Are
Quebec: F Que, F Gas, A Mon
Republican States: A SLC, A Oma, A StL, A Mem, F Atl, A Bir
Texas: A Dal, F Hou, A SAn
Venezuela: F Mar, F Cum, A Car

Wing units are used, but no power starts with them.

Wing Unit Rules:
1.A wing unit can move over both land and water spaces
2.A wing unit can support actions in any space adjacent to the one it occupies.
3.A wing can give, receive and cut support in the same way as armies and fleets.
4.A wing unit cannot convoy or be convoyed.
5.A wing unit cannot capture an SC, but instead blockades it:
1.A blockade occurs when a wing unit occupies the SC of another player in a fall season.
2.The player who owns a blockaded SC does not get to count it when counting his total number of SCs.
3.A blockade ends as soon as the wing unit no longer occupies the SC.
4.Builds only take place in the winter phase, just as in games without wings.


Any comments are appreciated. Also, if anyone is interested in running a game, please let me know. I'm probably not going to play in it (but you never know), but I'd love to see a game unfold.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby nickjb3 » 13 May 2009, 23:21

I protest to the fusing of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to Wisconsin.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby ak47 » 13 May 2009, 23:24

i protest the complete disappearance of delaware. our entire peninsula is gone :O
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby Firestorm94 » 13 May 2009, 23:30

I protest Illinois being called Chicago.
Last edited by Firestorm94 on 13 May 2009, 23:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby Sanguinem » 13 May 2009, 23:31

I hear your protests and I don't care :P I was expecting it from someone. Do people in Milan protest not having Milan as a SC instead of Pie? Seriously...

Besides, Delaware is too tiny to be a seperate space. The upper peninsula isn't even a full state :p Entire states were merged that are far larger than either area you mention (such as Montana and Idaho, Ohio and Indiana, both Dakotas, both Carolinas, both Virginias, not to mention a lot of states in Mexico, Peru, Brazil etc).

As for Illinois being called Chicago, it just follows Diplomacy's tradition of calling home SCs after cities and neutral SCs being named after territories.

I was hoping for constructive criticism about play balance, etc.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby Magmaniac » 14 May 2009, 02:47

The map looks cool, especially the Caribbean area, although some of the abbreviations are somewhat hard to read.
As far as balance goes... I don't know... I don't really like the idea of some countries starting out with three centers while others start out with six... it just seems inherently imbalanced in that aspect to me. I'd like to see the elimination of texas as a power, and the united states divided into less territories, with the two powers there being less spread out and also have a few less centers.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby Sanguinem » 14 May 2009, 03:32

To upload the map to playdiplomacy.com, I had to shrink and convert the file, so it's smaller than I would like. I have a bigger, clearer map I could send to you if you like.

I'm on the fence about Texas as a power. I think I want to try the first playtest with Texas and see how it goes. As for the other American powers, I also wanted to make it somewhat realistic in terms of strength. Even divided in 3, the USA would still be far more powerful than any other country in the Americas. On this map, including neutrals, the USA consists of 34 SCs. The Republican and Democrat powers are both far larger but also far more vulnerable than any other power. This seems unbalanced, but their vulnerability balances it out. They'll either grow quickly or implode just as quickly. If they ally, they could be very powerful, but again, are always vulnerable to each other. I see it as somewhat like the Italy/Austria situation in Classic, except multiplied in intensity. I would like to playtest first with both as they are, more or less (meaning both larger than the rest, and more spread out).

It is different from a lot of Diplomacy maps. There's a lot of island spaces in the middle, lots of bi-coastal spaces in Central America. It's also long, in that the corner powers are pretty far from each other. Still, Argentina can reach Washington state within 3 years thanks to large edge sea spaces. Also, the Red and Blue states probably won't change too much. California and New York will be part of the same power, and while Texas may or may not be in the final game, the Red states will probably end up similar to what they are now, although the actual SCs might change.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby thegame » 14 May 2009, 07:55

When you mentioned in another topic you wanted to remake post-modern America, I didn't think you'd do it so soon. This variant looks interesting. The Texas, Blue states, and Red states definatly needs to be tested though. Canada looks strong, but may have trouble fighting off an all out attack. Quebec looks weak, but has some great opportunities based on their diplomatic skills. Mexico and Brazil both look exceedingly strong, but they are also middle countries. I'm not sure if that would be enough to balance them though. The smaller South American countries look like they can become easy victims to Brazil. Cuba looks like the most interesting country to play. The island nation of the game looks like they can decide the outcome of any war they wish to join after their expansion. Having SC that can only be taken with a fleet is rather unique. That along with the Republic and Democratic powers should set this variant apart from others.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby poflaco » 21 May 2009, 23:26

I think that the map is pretty cool. Its just the balance as other have said. Brazil can be treated like russia in the normal game, but be sure that it has extra units to even it out and not give it an unfair advantage. I think that latin america is done pretty well. As for the north. I like that canada is separated because of quebec. As for the US though... I Just do not like the democrat states being separated. Any country in this game should have one solid territory in the beginning. I would suggest Making the Solid south the republicans and the north east could be the dems. Texas and California could be separate countries. that way the north is somewhat like the the south with several clearly defined countries. in different parts of the continent.
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Re: New Variant! Post-Modern: Americas repost

Postby poflaco » 28 May 2009, 02:38

I would like to know how this has been going for you and what you think of my imput. Just checking in :)
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