Dune Variant

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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Jclash4686 » 20 Mar 2009, 20:05

Good point when I start the forum in the actual games list I am going to include everything and discuss it. Zanmor is still MIA so I'll let you guys know.
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Zanmor » 20 Mar 2009, 23:56

Ok guys, sorry about the delay. Between work and a concert last night I haven't been on a computer in over a day. So, there may be some minor changes to these before we actually get underway, but these rules are pretty solid, I think. And of course, please ask any questions, even check out some scenarios and all, before we get underway. If there are any problems or confusion I'd like to try and get rid of that before we start.

Dune Diplomacy

All normal Diplomacy rules apply except as noted.
First of all, the game starts in 10190 AG, the first orders taking place in Spring 10191.
There are thirty two (32) supply centers. Seventeen (17) are needed for a solo victory.
The six (6) factions are the great houses Corrino, Harkonnen, Atreides, and the Spacing Guild, Bene Gesserit and Fremen.

All factions start with armies. Armies can move to any space on the board. When on a sandy space they can be ordered to attempt to summon a worm. This order is entered as ‘A (province name) Summons’.
Any move against that army causes the attempt to fail, even if the unit is not dislodged. For example:

A Mirage Erg Summons
A Stilgar’s Island moves Mirage Erg

Even though the move on Mirage Erg is not supported and does not dislodge the other army, this still causes the summon to fail.
Armies attempting to summon can still be supported as though they were holding.
If a summon succeeds (is not moved against) then the army that summoned is replaced by a sandworm unit and follows special rules.
Movement rules remain the same except that worms can only move through sandy spaces. The sandy spaces are the yellow ones on the board. They cannot support attacks or holds of units in rocky spaces (this may change a bit). A few spaces are partially rock and partially sand. Worms can move into, control, support moves to or support holds of units in Rock Outcroppings, Habbanya Erg, Wind Pass and the Reef. Worms cannot move pass the 'worm line' into the Polar Basin.
Worm units have special attack rules. They still have the same strength of any army unit, so they require support to dislodge a unit. However, if a worm dislodges a unit by moving against it (not supporting an army to dislodge it) then the dislodged unit is automatically destroyed and has no opportunity to retreat.

Escort

This is essentially the same thing as convoying in regular Diplomacy but the name has been changed to reflect movement over land, not aboard ships at sea.
A unit attempting to move via an escort must have a complete chain to reach its destination. In the case of worms it is also necessary that this escort chain not go through an area or end in an area they cannot normally move to (rocky area). Both worms and armies can escort or be escorted.
Example orders for a short escort chain are as follows:

A Saline Playa moves to The Major Erg
A Cielago Depression escorts A Saline Playa to The Major Erg

If the unit in Saline Playa had been a worm (denoted in shorthand orders by a ‘W’) then it would have been illegal to escort it through the Cielago Depression, which is a rocky area.
However, a worm can escort an army to a rocky area. The escort simply assumes that a friendly unit or units control the space or spaces that are being escorted through. So, the following is legal:

A C’tair Erg moves to Cielago Depression
W Saline Playa escorts A C’tair Erg to Cielago Depression

The worm cannot and is not moving to the rocky area, but is simply insuring the army has safe and therefore faster movement through the sandy area it occupies.
Just as with convoys in regular Diplomacy, if any unit along the escort chain is dislodged then the escort fails.
Last edited by Zanmor on 22 Mar 2009, 23:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby JoeA-Z » 21 Mar 2009, 02:29

Sounds a bit confusing but my question still stands...

"How would someone go about attacking some of the territories like Stilgar's Island where there is only one unit that can get at it (Doesn't that make the army occupying that space invincible)?"

Also, might it just be easier and simpler all around to just have worms replace fleets, sand replace ocean, and just call it a day (I know it may not be as true to the book but if your letting the Harkonnens summon worms then the same could be said...)
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Steppenwulf » 22 Mar 2009, 07:04

I am interested in a Dune variant. I cant read png's at the moment, however, and anyway they are too large for my wireless network at home
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Zanmor » 22 Mar 2009, 23:07

JoeA-Z wrote:Sounds a bit confusing but my question still stands...

"How would someone go about attacking some of the territories like Stilgar's Island where there is only one unit that can get at it (Doesn't that make the army occupying that space invincible)?"

Very true. We'll have to change that. I think there are already plans to divide some of the larger sand spaces up a bit, so we can probably just divide them around those 'islands.'
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Popobawa » 22 Mar 2009, 23:47

I don't think escort as it is now should be in the game, all it does is making attacking less risky, you can't support a attacking unit to hold, so if it fails you could loose the point you are attacking from, which results in you having to guess what the enemy does and thus choose to attack or defend. But if you escort you can just support the escorting unit to hold without the risk of loosing ground, in normal games this is a huge bonus for fleets imo, but it shouldn't be introduced for armies. Hope i made my point clear, i'm not always understandable when explaining my thoughts :D

A question too, can the worms be unsummoned?
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby Zanmor » 23 Mar 2009, 01:57

Popobawa wrote:I don't think escort as it is now should be in the game, all it does is making attacking less risky, you can't support a attacking unit to hold, so if it fails you could loose the point you are attacking from, which results in you having to guess what the enemy does and thus choose to attack or defend. But if you escort you can just support the escorting unit to hold without the risk of loosing ground, in normal games this is a huge bonus for fleets imo, but it shouldn't be introduced for armies. Hope i made my point clear, i'm not always understandable when explaining my thoughts :D

A question too, can the worms be unsummoned?

Sorry, I don't quite follow. If you choose to escort a unit then that unit and all those involved in the chain can do nothing else, like support an attack or hold. I think you still have to choose. Perhaps you could give an example set of orders to help explain.

And no, the rules don't allow for worms to be unsummoned as it is.
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby JoeA-Z » 23 Mar 2009, 07:20

What Popobawa was talking about was the fact that normally when making an attack the unit performing that move is vulnerable since it cannot both attack and be supported to hold at the same time. If it's support is cut or an attack from an unexpected direction occurs it is left out high and dry but with this escort function attacking now has no risk because a unit can be supported to hold in place while at the same time performing an attack from that location. Basically your allowing a unit to perform two orders at once, holding through the escort order, (defending and being supported in the defence) and attacking (possibly also with support) which eliminates an aspect of risk normally instrumental to gameplay...
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby viridianether » 23 Mar 2009, 07:35

I would love to play this game. You could add a 7th player being the Water Merchants. For this special variant I suggest a third unit type: the ornithopter. They would be able to move to ANY adjacent space. However, due to the rather overpowering and ubiquitous nature of the unit, perhaps a maximum number may be generated, say 1 or 2? Or perhaps they should obey the rule that once dislodged, they are destroyed without the opportunity to retreat.
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Re: Dune Variant

Postby JoeA-Z » 23 Mar 2009, 07:40

That might be interesting (I like the destroy function) but maybe with the addition that it can only fly during the spring phase (can't fly during certain seasons or needs refuelling or something...) to limit just how decisive a piece it could be...
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