Climate Change

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Re: Climate Change

Postby DavidMaletsky » 19 Aug 2019, 15:15

The point of discourse is mutual understanding. Devil’s advocate positions can provide interesting thought experiments, but at the end of the day, anyone who steadfastly ignores mountains of evidence in the name of deriding induction frankly ceases to be a valuable member of a conversation. Because if all we can sensibly discuss are deductive truths, it’s going to be a short and fairly useless conversation about arithmetic and syntax.

The root of the term “unreasonable” is, redundantly, the denial of reason. If you want to deny induction, mountains of empirical evidence, and the process by which the bulk of humanity gets from premise to conclusion the bulk of the time, that’s your prerogative; it’s also the prerogative of reasonable people to then ignore your disingenuous and literally unreasonable position, in the interest of having a potentially productive discourse.

It’s not hard to fistpound relativism; we don’t have absolute certainty about very much. What we do have are overwhelming likelihoods, and a need to move forward in the world without being paralyzed by indecision generated by relativism.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 19 Aug 2019, 17:27

You're the one doing the fistpounding. I am looking for the answers. But too much rhetoric comes from your side of the debate. "Overwhelming evidence".
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Re: Climate Change

Postby DavidMaletsky » 19 Aug 2019, 18:07

Anyone can pull up a chart off of Google tracking carbon emissions since the advent of the Industrial Revolution, indexed against previous centuries. After centuries of barely moving, suddenly the line turns nearly vertical after coal and oil are in widespread use? Weird, right?

And all the plastic in nature now is very normal because it’s always been that way WAIT NO WE MADE ALL OF IT.

“Overwhelming evidence” isn’t rhetoric; it’s shorthand because the evidence is right in front of the face of anyone who spends ten seconds looking for it. If you’re deliberately averting your gaze in a childish exercise, that’s up to you, but kindly spare reasonable people the “argument” that my relativism means there aren’t any truths for the rest of humanity. Induction based off of empirical evidence is a process that’s as sound and useful a tool as we have, and as a consequence, it is in constant, global use. Again, people generally like to communicate fairly successfully and understand things, rather than entertain for legitimate debate “not only is everyone else’s worldview wrong, but further, the reasoning process everyone uses to get along in the world is also wrong”... both of which fall deductively out of your snide “in your opinion” nonsense. Your position is the enormous statistical outlier, and the idea that the burden of proof should somehow NOT be on you is ALSO an outlier in not only science but math, logic and philosophy.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby DavidMaletsky » 19 Aug 2019, 18:29

Should also mention one more founding principle of reasonable discourse: the principle of charity. That whatever someone else says, try to ascribe the best framework to it when listening.

As a consequence, I assume everyone in this chat is bright as a jump off point. So it’s not the case that you CAN’T understand. And the evidence of humanity’s impact on nature is, while mostly correlative, also statistically very lopsided. So much so that if it were say the sun rising in the morning or leaves falling it autumn, it wouldn’t ordinarily register doubt.

So the most charitable conclusion is that you choose to fly in the face of reason, right? Because I assume you’re smart and have access to the same info everyone else does; one can always strictly speaking disagree with inductive “proof” since it’s not deductive proof, but reasonable people... don’t, is all.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 19 Aug 2019, 18:59

Wow. If this is what I get when I just say "In your opinion". I set this debate up to try to get some facts, not to get you sounding off. WHS gave a really good response, which I respected and asked for further clarification. I can't say the same for your posts so far. Just saying "there is lots of evidence" is not having a debate. Maybe you should go and have a chat with Donald T. You have a lot in common.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby DavidMaletsky » 19 Aug 2019, 19:14

Also, which counts as “not having a debate”: the individual who finds it laborious and unnecessary to link common knowledge, or the individual striving to ignore it?
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 19 Aug 2019, 19:28

DavidMaletsky wrote:Also, which counts as “not having a debate”: the individual who finds it laborious and unnecessary to link common knowledge, or the individual striving to ignore it?

Obviously to engage in the debate you need to add to it constructively. I'm not even going to click on those links.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby DavidMaletsky » 19 Aug 2019, 19:30

Well done completing your defense of ignoring a mountain of evidence... by ignoring a mountain of evidence.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 19 Aug 2019, 19:34

DavidMaletsky wrote:Well done completing your defense of ignoring a mountain of evidence... by ignoring a mountain of evidence.

I'm just ignoring you.
The Devil makes work for idle forces

Better to have fought and lost, than never to have fought at all
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Just say "NO!" To carebears and kittens
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